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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #11  
Old 30th May 2017, 11:19
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Re: War Over The Steppes

Hi there

Was a simple question with no other purpose which triggered
an unnecessary reaction at your end .
  #12  
Old 30th May 2017, 21:02
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Re: War Over The Steppes

"for having (and reporting) bad news."

According to my knowledge, the use of the term "bad news" by the author proves that the person who writes in this way has no basic knowledge of what happened in June and July 1941 on the Eastern Front (in VVS RKKA).

Reports showing the losses incurred in June and July 1941 (in VVS RKKA) were written by staff officers in November, December 1941.

Stalin did not kill officers because of "bad news". This is a very strong myth that until now is in the minds of some Western authors.


It is just as scary as little effort some authors devote to their "research"


regards,
mw
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  #13  
Old 31st May 2017, 11:02
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Re: War Over The Steppes

"
Quote:
(4) The arrest of VVS Gen Dimitrii Pavlov, on 30 June, 1941 for having (and reporting) bad news. (Executed on 22 July, 1941.)"
It is actually terrible. Gen collonel Pavlov never had anything to do with aviation, he was connectet with armored units. Pavlov fought during the Spanish Civil War as a tank brigade commander - (he was tankista/tank-man and got HSU). Arrested on 4 July 1941.

He was the commander of the Western Front on June 22, 1941. It had nothing to do with the pruges of VVS RKKKA aviation commanders. Stalin ordered to punish the guilty for a total catastrophe of troops on the Western Front - shoot them.


He was accused of cowardice, ineptitude, loss of arms and storage, arbitrary withdrawal of troops, and consequently led to the collapse of the Soviet-German front.


It was such a demonstration of power to all the commanders of what will happen to them for bad military command.

regards
mw

PS

In the era of Wikipedias and Google it is terrible to commit so many substantive mistakes in a short sentence
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  #14  
Old 31st May 2017, 23:55
Broncazonk Broncazonk is offline
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Re: War Over The Steppes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski View Post
"for having (and reporting) bad news."

According to my knowledge, the use of the term "bad news" by the author proves that the person who writes in this way has no basic knowledge of what happened in June and July 1941 on the Eastern Front (in VVS RKKA).
To clarify, that was my term, not the authors. I was jumping to this conclusion: "Every general/commander--who had bad news--ended up getting shot by the NKVD. Because, there wasn't a lot of good news coming from the front during that time, it was all mostly really bad, and as it turns out, hundreds of thousands of officers were indeed getting shot because of the lack of good news. It was what it was: a Purge.

Everyone please calm down. We're learning a lot about a very controversial topic.

Bronc
  #15  
Old 8th June 2017, 20:07
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: War Over The Steppes

Hello Mirek,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski View Post
(2) The suicide of VVS Gen-major Ivan Kopets on 23 June, 1941 ... in fact according offical military archive the day of death of Ivan Kopetz was not 23 June 1941. ... the day of his death was one month later on 23 July (23.07.) 1941 - such information is written in official military archive.
Mikhail Timin (I'm sure you have read his studies) told me that Kopets certainly shot himself before 17:30 22 June, most probably about 17:00.

Documents which you can see on OBD or Pamyat Naroda websites with dates 23.Jul or even 25.Jul were written after a long time and are incorrect.

Best regards,
Andrey
  #16  
Old 8th June 2017, 20:24
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: War Over The Steppes

Hello researcher111,

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Originally Posted by researcher111 View Post
In total over 138'000 or more officers from Captain to Generals were executed
it is off-topic here but your numbers are extremely exaggerated.

Best regards,
Andrey
  #17  
Old 9th June 2017, 19:21
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Re: War Over The Steppes

I didn't gather the figures from my own pockets , nor I asked anyone to believe them - Fact is that these numbers are substantially higher because I did not include all NKVD affiliates and various ranks of Politruks throughout the entire Soviet Union .If you dispute these figure howabout you provide your own evidences Tovarish !
  #18  
Old 10th June 2017, 17:18
mars mars is offline
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Re: War Over The Steppes

Quote:
Originally Posted by researcher111 View Post
I didn't gather the figures from my own pockets , nor I asked anyone to believe them - Fact is that these numbers are substantially higher because I did not include all NKVD affiliates and various ranks of Politruks throughout the entire Soviet Union .If you dispute these figure howabout you provide your own evidences Tovarish !
h

hi, since you are the one who provide this number, you should be the one to address your source
  #19  
Old 10th June 2017, 19:32
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Re: War Over The Steppes

from a friend who works at Russian Military State Archives , a family member who worked in the past in Russian Gov , numerous books etc ---- anything else I can help you with ?
  #20  
Old 10th June 2017, 22:22
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: War Over The Steppes

Quote:
Originally Posted by researcher111 View Post
from a friend who works at Russian Military State Archives , a family member who worked in the past in Russian Gov , numerous books etc ---- anything else I can help you with ?
Is it the same person who try to prove the 40-mln losses? The author of the wonderful theory that armed forces personnel wasn't accounted during the population counts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by researcher111 View Post
numerous books
Some examples?

During the darkest years of the Big Terror 1937-38 several thousands officers (lieutenants and above) were executed. When were executed other 130,000+ officers (even apart from lieutenants from your words)?

Best regards,
Andrey
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