FW190 SchG1 claims 24.May43?

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello gentlemen,

24.5.43 in the air combat off Gelendzhik (small Black sea port) two Yak-1 were downed and two Yak-1 and a Airacobra were damaged. It was during timeframe roughly 12:00-12:45 MSK = 11:00-11:45 DSZ. According to Soviet sources the air combat was with Bf109s. Can't find any relevant German claim or even mentions about the event in question.

Maybe FW190s from II./SchG1 were instead of Bf109s? Any claims, mentions in FBs, etc?


Best regards,
Andrey

[Nick Hector]

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

Hello gentlemen,

24.5.43 in the air combat off Gelendzhik (small Black sea port) two Yak-1 were downed and two Yak-1 and a Airacobra were damaged. It was during timeframe roughly 12:00-12:45 MSK = 11:00-11:45 DSZ. According to Soviet sources the air combat was with Bf109s. Can't find any relevant German claim or even mentions about the event in question.

Maybe FW190s from II./SchG1 were instead of Bf109s? Any claims, mentions in FBs, etc?


Best regards,
Andrey

Hi Andrey,

Which units suffered these losses?

[focusfocus]

I don't think it's the II./SchG1,because its first victory since its transformation on Fw.190 is dated 26/05/43 (one Il-2 over Krymskaya)
On the other hand,two Yak-1 were claimed by II/JG52 the 24/05/43:
Uffz.Hans Waldmann
Oblt.Karl Ritzenberger (his last claim,then shot down by Yak over Novorossisk,30-35 km of Gelendzhik).

Michel

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Nick Hector

Which units suffered these losses?

Hi Nick,

VVS ChF - 6.GIAP and 32.IAP

Best regards,
Andrey

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello Michel,

Originally Posted by focusfocus

I don't think it's the II./SchG1,because its first victory since its transformation on Fw.190 is dated 26/05/43 (one Il-2 over Krymskaya)

Thank you!

Originally Posted by focusfocus

On the other hand,two Yak-1 were claimed by II/JG52 the 24/05/43:
Uffz.Hans Waldmann
Oblt.Karl Ritzenberger (his last claim,then shot down by Yak over Novorossisk,30-35 km of Gelendzhik).

Diversity in time.

Best regards,
Andrey

[Rottler]

Hello Andrey,

the II./JG 52 claimed 4 Yak-1 on May 24, 1943:
09:58 Uffz Hans Waldmann 6./JG 52
10:00 Oblt Karl Ritzenberger 6./JG 52
10:04 Fw Heinz Sachsenberg 6./JG 52
12:25 Uffz Günter Komorowski 5./JG 52.
Source: Prien-Stemmer-Rodeike-Bock: Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945, Teil 12/II.

Oblt Ritzenberger was later lost with his Bf 109 G-4 WNr. 19706 south of Noworossisk. Source: Gen.Qu. loss report from June 6, 1943 No. 141.

Regards
Leo Rottler

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello Leo,

Originally Posted by Rottler

the II./JG 52 claimed 4 Yak-1 on May 24, 1943:
09:58 Uffz Hans Waldmann 6./JG 52
10:00 Oblt Karl Ritzenberger 6./JG 52
10:04 Fw Heinz Sachsenberg 6./JG 52
12:25 Uffz Günter Komorowski 5./JG 52.
Source: Prien-Stemmer-Rodeike-Bock: Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945, Teil 12/II.

I have Teil 12/II.
These claims are irrelevant because the losses mentioned above were somewhere between 11:00 and 11:45 DSZ.

Ritzenberger was downed certainly by 6.GIAP pilots at 10:00+ DSZ (11:03 MSK = 10:03 DSZ, according to the shore observers report). Sgt Klimov who had finished off the damaged Ritzenberger's Bf109 in flight at zero altitude, had hitched the water by a wing and had crashed.

Klimov was the sole loss during that timeframe so the German claims at 09:58-10:04 DSZ seems groundless. Or Waldmann's and Sachsenberg's claims were a hour+ later really. At least Waldmann's next mission was at 11:25-12:20 DSZ, with air combat against 12 Yak-1.
Don't know about Sachsenberg's next mission.

Best regards,
Andrey

[Nick Hector]

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

Hi Nick,

VVS ChF - 6.GIAP and 32.IAP

Best regards,
Andrey

Thanks Andrey

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by focusfocus

I don't think it's the II./SchG1,because its first victory since its transformation on Fw.190 is dated 26/05/43 (one Il-2 over Krymskaya)

Just found: 15.Apr.43 (first day of FW190 combat missions over Kuban) German infantry units and Lw-Flak Abteilung saw that FW190 shot down a Il-2 in Krymskaya area. Maybe data about II./SchG1 claims are incomplete?

[Nokose]

On the 24 May 1943 there is 5 claims by III./JG 3 near Batajsk which is probably not the place. No claims by 13.(slow)/JG 52 and 15.(kroat)/JG 52 that day but Hptm. Nikola Cvikie of 15./JG 52 had motorbrand, Notlandung, Taman, 35% - Feindflug on Bf 109 G-2 # 14032 that day. Then their is always the possibility of a Rumanian fighter.