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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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He 219 '3-digit' werknummern
Hi guys
I noticed an interesting discussion elsewhere on the board today about a similar topic (with different aircraft). We have looked at 3-digit werknummern on the Heinkel He 219 for our forthcoming book, but I wondered if anyone had any thoughts? temporarily taken out of active service? late War Vienna-produced He 219s vs from those coming from Rostock? An effort to fool Allied intelligence? ‘tradition’ of each particular repair facility? any thoughts? what comparable systems were used on other types? cheers Rich |
#2
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern
Can you post an example? I did a quick google search for photos and looked thru other various He 219 photo libraries, but couldn't find a 3 digit Wnr..
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#3
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern
https://ibb.co/g9XxXQ1
https://ibb.co/Gd55FJj https://ibb.co/5B6rSxG It's possible they used the three digit Wk.Nr. only on the A-0 type, and it seems that all those planes are from Wien-Schwechat - I have been told all have the Wien-Schwechat type camouflage although I am no expert and would need to be schooled on the subject |
#4
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern
Likely those examples are showing just the last 3 digits of a 6-digit WNr. You see the same thing sometimes on He 177s.
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#5
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern
ah OK... just wondering why this system would exist
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#6
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern
Don't try and over think it. As a simple explanation, it appears to be something the Heinkel Werks did during the latter months of the war - to which I would again refer you to the He 177, though admittedly there, the 3-digit numbers generally appeared somewhere at the front of the aircraft for most of the examples that come to mind without actually looking. All the 219s I have have a full 6-digit WNr. when reported via loss except for a couple of the earlier reported incidents (WNr. 002 & 0055 - this last was also reported as an Me 210 per one source of the two sources I have [Balss]. It's not in the GQM losses, at least I've not found a match yet.)
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#7
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern
I think Jim’s right. As I said in another thread, it wasn’t uncommon in strength returns to list (say) Bf 109 or Fw 190 by giving the full six digits for one and then just the last three digits for the rest, taking the series as read. At unit or factory level, the last three digits would suffice for most everyday identification of an aircraft (e.g. you weren’t likely to have two ...999’s in the same place at the same time). Similarly, it was quite common in air forces to repeat a tactical number or letter on a wing leading edge or nose, or (as on some Do 217s) a partial code on the tail, for ease of identification. In the late war Luftwaffe, saving paint was perhaps a consideration too.
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#8
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern
many thanks for the input guys, appreciated
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#9
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern
e.g. you weren’t likely to have two ...999’s in the same place at the same time
Assuming that you get a/c randomly (not consecutive numbers all from the same production line) then for a unit with 16 aircraft there is an 11% chance that you will have 2 aircraft with the same 3 digit code ending. Also assuming numbers run from 001 to 999 and are equally likely. If some numbers are more likely than others or high numbers (e.g 999) do not occur then the probability of getting a pair increases. Therefore roughly 1 in 9 squadrons would have the problem enjoy Martin |
#10
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern
Quote:
I wouldn't dream of arguing the maths but at least with the limited production of the He 219, you'd probably escape a three-digit clash. |
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