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  #1  
Old 11th October 2020, 12:03
richdlc richdlc is offline
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He 219 '3-digit' werknummern

Hi guys
I noticed an interesting discussion elsewhere on the board today about a similar topic (with different aircraft).

We have looked at 3-digit werknummern on the Heinkel He 219 for our forthcoming book, but I wondered if anyone had any thoughts?

temporarily taken out of active service?
late War Vienna-produced He 219s vs from those coming from Rostock?
An effort to fool Allied intelligence?
‘tradition’ of each particular repair facility?

any thoughts?

what comparable systems were used on other types?

cheers
Rich
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Old 11th October 2020, 15:58
Revi16 Revi16 is offline
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern

Can you post an example? I did a quick google search for photos and looked thru other various He 219 photo libraries, but couldn't find a 3 digit Wnr..
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Old 11th October 2020, 18:02
richdlc richdlc is offline
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern

https://ibb.co/g9XxXQ1
https://ibb.co/Gd55FJj
https://ibb.co/5B6rSxG

It's possible they used the three digit Wk.Nr. only on the A-0 type, and it seems that all those planes are from Wien-Schwechat - I have been told all have the Wien-Schwechat type camouflage although I am no expert and would need to be schooled on the subject
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Old 11th October 2020, 18:46
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern

Likely those examples are showing just the last 3 digits of a 6-digit WNr. You see the same thing sometimes on He 177s.
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Old 11th October 2020, 19:31
richdlc richdlc is offline
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern

ah OK... just wondering why this system would exist
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Old 12th October 2020, 01:39
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern

Don't try and over think it. As a simple explanation, it appears to be something the Heinkel Werks did during the latter months of the war - to which I would again refer you to the He 177, though admittedly there, the 3-digit numbers generally appeared somewhere at the front of the aircraft for most of the examples that come to mind without actually looking. All the 219s I have have a full 6-digit WNr. when reported via loss except for a couple of the earlier reported incidents (WNr. 002 & 0055 - this last was also reported as an Me 210 per one source of the two sources I have [Balss]. It's not in the GQM losses, at least I've not found a match yet.)
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Old 12th October 2020, 09:31
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Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern

I think Jim’s right. As I said in another thread, it wasn’t uncommon in strength returns to list (say) Bf 109 or Fw 190 by giving the full six digits for one and then just the last three digits for the rest, taking the series as read. At unit or factory level, the last three digits would suffice for most everyday identification of an aircraft (e.g. you weren’t likely to have two ...999’s in the same place at the same time). Similarly, it was quite common in air forces to repeat a tactical number or letter on a wing leading edge or nose, or (as on some Do 217s) a partial code on the tail, for ease of identification. In the late war Luftwaffe, saving paint was perhaps a consideration too.
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Old 12th October 2020, 20:33
richdlc richdlc is offline
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern

many thanks for the input guys, appreciated
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Old 13th October 2020, 16:27
MW Giles MW Giles is offline
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern

e.g. you weren’t likely to have two ...999’s in the same place at the same time

Assuming that you get a/c randomly (not consecutive numbers all from the same production line) then for a unit with 16 aircraft there is an 11% chance that you will have 2 aircraft with the same 3 digit code ending. Also assuming numbers run from 001 to 999 and are equally likely. If some numbers are more likely than others or high numbers (e.g 999) do not occur then the probability of getting a pair increases.

Therefore roughly 1 in 9 squadrons would have the problem

enjoy

Martin
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Old 13th October 2020, 17:11
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Re: He 219 '3-digit' werknummern

Quote:
Originally Posted by MW Giles View Post
e.g. you weren’t likely to have two ...999’s in the same place at the same time

Assuming that you get a/c randomly (not consecutive numbers all from the same production line) then for a unit with 16 aircraft there is an 11% chance that you will have 2 aircraft with the same 3 digit code ending. Also assuming numbers run from 001 to 999 and are equally likely. If some numbers are more likely than others or high numbers (e.g 999) do not occur then the probability of getting a pair increases.

Therefore roughly 1 in 9 squadrons would have the problem

enjoy

Martin
Hi Martin,

I wouldn't dream of arguing the maths but at least with the limited production of the He 219, you'd probably escape a three-digit clash.
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