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Old 23rd August 2015, 02:43
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Seeking info/photos concerning Lt. Hans Schmid, of 2./ZG52 & 5./ZG2 during 1940

Hello,

Many years ago I posted a request for information about Lt. Hans Schmidt, a pilot with I./ZG52, and after June, 1940, II./ZG2. At the time, we didn't have a date of birth or the Staffel he belonged to. Not even the Hans Ring/Bock victory lists indicated the Staffel he belonged to. I now know that his DoB was 09.01.13, and that he was issued an EKM # with 2./ZG52, which should cover his time during the Western Campaign of 1940. In June, 1940, this unit was renamed 5./ZG2, where Schmid fought through the Battle of Britain.

This score would have made him one of the highest scoring Zerstörer pilots during 1940, with a reported 15 victories to his credit, although he was not awarded the RK during 1940. To my knowledge, no photos have ever surfaced of his Bf110 and no Bf110 from 2./ZG52-5./ZG2 illustrates scoreboard during anytime in 1940.

Here is what I know about his victory claims, as reported by Ring/Bock:

During the WC, these two are listed as confirmed victories;
1) 10.05.40 Marane 406
2) 11.05.40 Morane 406

The Ring/Bock victory lists have an additional five estimated (turks) victories to the end of the WC:

3) 14.05.40 Unknown Type
4) 14.05.40 Unknown Type
5) 27.05.40 Unknown Type
6) 27.05.40 Unknown Type
7) 03.06.40 Unknown Type

During the Battle of Britain, presumably with 5./ZG2, these "estimated" (turks) victories are listed:

8) 08.08.40 Spitfire
9) 08.08.40 Blenheim
10) 11.08.40 Spitfire
11) 12.08.40 Spitfire
12) 13.08.40 engl Jäger
13) 16.08.40 Spitfire
14) 30.08.40 Unknown
15) 02.09.40 Unknown

My questions are:

1) Since these victory lists were compiled many years ago, has any of the "estimated" victories been confirmed, or new dates established for them?

2) Has any information surfaced (FB, Photos, etc) that gives the codes used on Schmid's a/c?

3) Have any photos surfaced of any 2./ZG52 or 5./ZG2 Bf110s that have scoreboards during 1940 showing how his victory tabs might have been displayed?

4) Since Schmid survived the war, did anyone ever interview him, or publish any accounts of his experiences during 1940?

5) Does anyone have or know of the existence of his FB?

According to the deZeng/Stankey 2015 LOCS Bio:

"SCHMID, Hans.
10.05.40 Lt., I./ZG 52. 27.05.40 Lt., I./ZG 52.
11.08.40 Oblt., II./ZG 2.
28/29.03.42 Oblt., 6./NJG 3.
29.03.42 Oblt.,
29.04.42 Oblt., 6./NJG 3.
05.04.44 Oblt., 3./NJG 100.
06.07.44 Oblt., 1./NJG 100.
05.44 Oblt., Staka 1./NJG 100.
07.07.44 Oblt., 1./NJG 100.
19.01.45 Oblt., I./NJG 100.
17.04.45 Hptm., I./NJG 100.
Credited with 13 night and 15 day victories.
Survived the war.
Credited with at least 4 victories, perhaps as many as 16."

This was an important Zerstörer pilot during 1940, and I'd very much like to document his aircraft with at least one color profile. Does anyone have any info or photos that would further this effort?
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Old 25th August 2015, 09:53
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Seeking info/photos concerning Lt. Hans Schmid, of 2./ZG52 & 5./ZG2 during 1940

Hi Larry

ZG 2 would be the most obscure of the large ZG units. With ZG 26 & ZG 76 each has a Gruppe those claims are completely covered by the micro films!

Regarding Schmid. It is remarkable that he didn't receive any real decorations no DKiG or EP, and if his total is as high as we think even a Ritterkreuz would have been a possibility!

I checked your claims listed against British losses only. The Blenheim on 8th August 1940 would appear to be unlikely, the others over England could well be especially those for 8th, 11th and 12th August, though I have your Spitfire's for 8th and 11th as Hurricane's.

Other ZG pilots with such high scores at this time were edging towards the Ritterkreuz. Perhaps some of those in France were ground "Kills". Though I do have a Hurricane for 27th May 1940 for him.

With 6./NJG 3 he make four claims, of which only two would appear to be confirmed:-

29th March 1942 zweimot Amrun area U/C
18th April 1942 Wellington north of Rendelburg 0248 hrs
29th April 1942 Wellington 0228 hrs
29th/30th September 1942 Lancaster near Stettin U/C

His claims for 3 & 1./NJG 100 are all found on the micro films, so can be considered 100% accurate:-

5th April 1944 U-2 2330 hrs
6th July 1944 Il-4 0024 hrs
7th July 1944 2 x Il-4 0017 & 0043 hrs

His claims for I./NJG 100 are not found on the micro films, as there are no entries pass 1st Januar 1945, so like those for 1940 these are somewhat questionable, but:-

19th/20th January 1945 Il-4
21st/22nd March 1945 Il-4
17th 18th April 1945 Il-4
19th/20th April 1945 Il-4

He would also seem never to have come to grief himself.

Many times I have seen "victory boards", but never for ZG 2, not even sure if all units had such things, but if so somebody somewhere has a photo. Only other hope is Schmid's logbook.....which by all accounts should be an exciting one.

Kind Regards

Johannes
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Old 25th August 2015, 10:24
Theo Boiten Theo Boiten is offline
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Re: Seeking info/photos concerning Lt. Hans Schmid, of 2./ZG52 & 5./ZG2 during 1940

I can add the following:

Wounded 23-24.4.45, shot down by 406 Sqn Mosquito (P/O Anaka & W/O Weber) on landing approach to Wittstock airfield

In the NJWD 2nd ed. I'll give more details. I would also be most interested in a photo of Hans Schmid!

Cheers, Theo
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Old 25th August 2015, 18:32
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Seeking info/photos concerning Lt. Hans Schmid, of 2./ZG52 & 5./ZG2 during 1940

Johannes/Theo,

Thanx for taking the time to respond about this pilot. Schmid is the most mysterious high-scoring Zerstörer pilot during 1940. I know that he had an extensive career in night fighters, but that is beyond the scope of the Eagles Over Europe Project, which only covers Schmid's day Zerstörer operations during 1940. Johannes, your willing to share your research on his purported claims against British losses is helpful. As serious researchers know, I and II./ZG2 (including I./ZG52) are relatively "black holes" as far as photos and information is concerned for 1940, especially regarding victory claims. As stated in my post my info on that comes from the Ring/Bock victory lists, and, though fragmentary, seem to come from some kind of specific source. Even the "estimated" (turk) listings are specific enough that they had to come from somewhere, although the info was still considered "unconfirmed." I was hoping that now knowing the Staffel he was assigned to (which even Ring/Bock apparently did not know), at least for the Western Campaign (2./ZG52) with him presumably transferring to 5./ZG2 in June, 1940, that this would lead to an identifiable tail scoreboard or something that could then lead to an ID of one of his a/c. Obviously, other serious researchers have the same problem that I have, although I'm still hopeful that someone has the photographic or info key to unlock this door.

Johannes, like you I've long hoped that either through later night fighter unit records (extending back historically to their predecessor units) or a photo of a unit scoreboard, or just a lucky photo or two, info would surface that fills in the gaps in the missing "official" information on these units or at least some of their pilots from 1940, which was apparently destroyed during the war.

Since Schmid did survive the war, I was hoping that someone tracked him down, or possibly some of his descendants, and conceivably his FB could still exist somewhere. I'm still hopeful someone with more information will respond.
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Old 26th August 2015, 07:57
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Seeking info/photos concerning Lt. Hans Schmid, of 2./ZG52 & 5./ZG2 during 1940

Hi Theo

Thanks for the information. Do you know whay type of aircraft Schmid was flying when shot down?

Kind Regards

Johannes
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  #6  
Old 26th August 2015, 23:25
Pieter H Pieter H is offline
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Re: Seeking info/photos concerning Lt. Hans Schmid, of 2./ZG52 & 5./ZG2 during 1940

Hi Larry,
Although the data is very thin, this is my interpretation of the possible opponents for the victory claims.

10 May: during the launch of the campaign I./ZG52 was the southernmost Bf110 unit, near the Swiss border, escorting bombers to central France. Its opponents were thus the French fighter units opposite them, GC II/7 and GC III/6. On this date there is one fight between the Moranes of GC II/7 and unidentified Bf110's, which must be those of I./ZG52. This happened at 15.40 and two Moranes were lost. So one could be Lt Schmid.

11 May: unfortunately there are no reported engagements with Bf110's in this southern sector by any French units. In fact I have hardly any Bf110 activities over France this day, so impossible to find a match without further details.

14 May: By this time the unit had moved to Mannheim (but when exactly, at least before early May 12?), and operated towards Sedan. The most likely encounter of Schmid's claim is the one around 16.15 with GC II/5 over Thionville where each side lost two aircraft.

With the limiyted dat this is my best interpretation of the claims.
Look forward to your comments.

Regards, Pieter
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