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Old 23rd December 2015, 20:52
Richard Mills's Avatar
Richard Mills Richard Mills is offline
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KG 53 Staka March 1944 (Bautz?)

I am trying to ascertain the identity of the signatory on the attached, signed as Staka 6./KG 53 in March-1944.

To my eyes the signatory is Wilhelm Bautz however.......

As you will see the date is March-44 although Larry de Zang has him down as appointed Staka 6./KG 53 in Nov-44 in the excellent Luftwaffe Officer Career Summaries, also also when he was awarded the Ehrenpokal on 08-May-1944 he is listed as being a Staffelkapitän however, the Staffel not listed.

BAUTZ, Wilhelm. (DOB: 27.09.14). (DKG). (W.B.K. Frankfurt/Oder). 10.10.40 trf to Fl.Ausb.Rgt. 41 as an instructor. 1941 assigned to Lg.Kdo. III. 24.11.42 trf to Blindflugschule 5 Belgrad-Zemun. 21.02.43 trf to IV./KG 53. 26.02.43 trf to 10./KG 53. 01.04.43 promo to Hptm. (Kr.O.). 15.06.43 trf to 4./KG 53 as a pilot. 08.05.44 Hptm., awarded Ehrenpokal. 15.11.44 Hptm., appt Staka 6./KG 53 (to 04.45). 01.01.45 Hptm., awarded DKG, (unspecified) KG.

In my mind the signatory is Bautz however, I would enjoy some input from the membership here to guage more opinion. Many thanks in advance.

Regards Richard.

Last edited by Richard Mills; 12th July 2016 at 21:37.
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Old 23rd December 2015, 22:31
Thomas H Thomas H is offline
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Re: KG 53 Staka March 1944 (Bautz?)

Hi Richard,

That is indeed the signature of Hauptmann Wilhelm Bautz.

I don't know if Larry de Zeng got his information From Heinz Kiehl or the other way around. Because 15.11.1944 till April 1945 is the period as Staka for Bautz in the book by Kiehl.

Between Heinz Zöllner and Bautz is an empty period of almost 14 months in the book by Kiehl. Although I don't know if Bautz started right after Zöllner left (who left according to this book, on 26.9.1943), but I do know that Bautz was already Staka 6./KG53 at Christmass 1943.

So his signature in a Flugbuch in March 1944 as Staka 6./KG53 is correct.

Regards, Thomas
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Old 23rd December 2015, 22:36
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KG 53 Staka March 1944 (Bautz?)

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Originally Posted by Thomas H View Post
Hi Richard,

That is indeed the signature of Hauptmann Wilhelm Bautz.

I don't know if Larry de Zeng got his information From Heinz Kiehl or the other way around. Because 15.11.1944 till April 1945 is the period as Staka for Bautz in the book by Kiehl.

Between Heinz Zöllner and Bautz is an empty period of almost 14 months in the book by Kiehl. Although I don't know if Bautz started right after Zöllner left (who left according to this book, on 26.9.1943), but I do know that Bautz was already Staka 6./KG53 at Christmass 1943.

So his signature in a Flugbuch in March 1944 as Staka 6./KG53 is correct. Regards, Thomas
Thomas

Thank you very much indeed for your help!

Regards Richard.
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Old 24th December 2015, 01:57
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: KG 53 Staka March 1944 (Bautz?)

Hi Richard and Thomas,

My entry was taken from Kiehl. This is purely a guess, but either Kiehl had no information covered this 14-month period or someone had been serving as acting or probationary Staka (probably Bautz) and the formal appointment did come come through until 15.11.44. Bautz was a Kriegsoffizier (Kr.O.) so his appointment as a Staffelkapitan would not have been immediate. Not having held command of a Staffel before, his appointment would not have become officially formal until his Gruppenkommandeur and Kommodore were satisfied with his performance. But I must confess, 14 months is an extraordinarily long time.

L.
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Old 24th December 2015, 12:46
Thomas H Thomas H is offline
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Re: KG 53 Staka March 1944 (Bautz?)

Hi Larry,

Thanks for your reply. There are a lot of gaps in Kiehl's list. I don't know where he got the information for his list. Bautz survived the war and in '83 Kiehl and Bautz were both on the Geschwadertreffen. I think Kiehl presented his book there. He may not have consulted with Bautz before and a revised version of his book was never made.

If Bautz first had to proof he could be a Staka, than I would expect a different stamp under his name. Would they already allow a person to sign as Staka before making it official? Wouldn't something like "acting Staka" be more appropiate? And again the 14 months. I know he signed as Staka in December 1943. That is 11 month before it may have been made official

Regards, Thomas

Ps. Do you still update your list when information comes available? Agree with Richard that your list is a very important source of information.
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Old 24th December 2015, 14:57
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: KG 53 Staka March 1944 (Bautz?)

Hi Thomas,

Yes, we do update our information. My co-author and colleague, Doug Stankey, produces a new update once each year and installs in on the website on 1 April.

Usually, as far as I know, a Staffelkapitan was not allowed to sign as such until he was officially appointed. But there are others here who specialize in the signing of Flugbücher and other documents who would know more than I do on this and whether or not the rules and regulations were always followed.

L.
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Old 25th December 2015, 14:33
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: KG 53 Staka March 1944 (Bautz?)

Larry/Thomas

May I suggest a printing error in the KG 53 book?
Perhaps the date is 15.11.1943 and not 15.11.1944?

Cheers
Stig
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Old 25th December 2015, 15:17
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: KG 53 Staka March 1944 (Bautz?)

Entirely possible, Stig. The Luftwaffe unit histories published by Motorbuch Verlag in the 1970's and 1980's were never proofread very well and are full of typos, especially dates.

L.
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Old 26th December 2015, 09:12
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KG 53 Staka March 1944 (Bautz?)

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Originally Posted by Larry deZeng View Post
Entirely possible, Stig. The Luftwaffe unit histories published by Motorbuch Verlag in the 1970's and 1980's were never proofread very well and are full of typos, especially dates. L.
Gents

Thank you all very much indeed for your respective replies and input into my original question, which is much appreciated.

Considering there are examples of Bautz signing as Staka 6./KG 53 from Dec-43, then the possibility of an error on Kiehl's behalf does sound a logical conclusion although, I shall bow to those here who have far more knowledge on the subject than myself!

From my own perspective I am pleased that the signature has been identified accordingly.

Merry Christmas to all!

Regards Richard.
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Old 26th December 2015, 11:12
Thomas H Thomas H is offline
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Re: KG 53 Staka March 1944 (Bautz?)

Good point Stig!

I share the Dec-43 example I have....best time of the year to share it

Merry Christmas to all

Regards, Thomas
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