Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17th January 2012, 00:24
rickback4444 rickback4444 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1,561
rickback4444 is on a distinguished road
Information concerning the loss of Ltn. Anton Elsinger - lost near the norwegian Coast - 18.12.1943

Hi,

Can anyone provide details over the loss of Ltn. Anton Elsinger who was lost near the Norwegian cost on the 18th December 1943.


Thanks

Rick

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 17th January 2012, 05:10
G.R.Morrison G.R.Morrison is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NH, USA
Posts: 455
G.R.Morrison
Re: Information concerning the loss of Ltn. Anton Elsinger - lost near the norwegian Coast - 18.12.1943

Yes.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17th January 2012, 09:05
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,917
Laurent Rizzotti is on a distinguished road
Re: Information concerning the loss of Ltn. Anton Elsinger - lost near the norwegian Coast - 18.12.1943



More seriously, here is what I have about this loss:

In the afternoon of 18 December 1943 the Fw 58 WNr 58393 KR+CW from Seenotstaffel 10 was shot down by the Mosquito VI HP861 of B Flight, 333 (Norwegian) Sqn RAF, flown by Kvm. Finn Eriksrud (pilot) and Kvm. Erling V. Johansen (navigator) and crashed off Bømlo, 30km NW Haugesund, (Pl.Qu.06-Ost-5032). The three German crew were killed.

Crew (all killed):
Lt. Anton Elsinger (pilot)
Uffz. Heinz Erfmann (radio)
Uffz. Fritz Bescham (flight engineer)

It was the third victory of Eriksrud, all scored on the Norwegian coast, but this time, according to one source, his Mosquito was hit by pieces of his victim and ditched in the sea. Both Norwegian airmen survived and were captured. On the other hand an unknown pilot of 12./JG 5 claimed a Mosquito shot down at 1505 hrs in Pl.Qu.06-Ost-50313, just close to the loss location of the Fw 58.

Source:
http://www.rafandluftwaffe.info/luftwaffe1.html
http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/Losses/tap43.html
http://www.rafandluftwaffe.info/lists/raf2.htm
http://www.cieldegloire.com/002n_eriksrud_f.php
http://www.luftwaffe.no/Table2.htm
Luftwaffe claims files, by Tony Wood and Jim Perry (http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/tonywood.htm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B8mlo
http://www.maplandia.com/norway/hordaland/bomlo/

If anyone has the name of the JG 5 pilot who claimed the Mosquito, I am interested.

Best regards

Laurent
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17th January 2012, 09:09
rickback4444 rickback4444 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1,561
rickback4444 is on a distinguished road
Re: Information concerning the loss of Ltn. Anton Elsinger - lost near the norwegian Coast - 18.12.1943

Thanks Laurant for the time and information.

As always I post the sterbebild on the board for others to use if they so wish.

I'm sorry to others who are annoyed by my search for for information.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17th January 2012, 09:25
ouidjat's Avatar
ouidjat ouidjat is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 3,636
ouidjat is on a distinguished road
Re: Information concerning the loss of Ltn. Anton Elsinger - lost near the norwegian Coast - 18.12.1943

Rick,
GRM is not annoyed; just a joke: "Can you give me the bread?" "Yes, I can". No? Yes?...
He did it with a smile for sure, and if he didn't know the answer he just said "Yes... someone else can do it".
Be good, Franck.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17th January 2012, 10:10
ju55dk's Avatar
ju55dk ju55dk is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,071
ju55dk will become famous soon enough
Smile Re: Information concerning the loss of Ltn. Anton Elsinger - lost near the norwegian Coast - 18.12.1943

Dear Rick.

You are spending a lot of money to buy these Sterbekarten. Why not use a small amount to aquire the GQM-loss list? Can be obtained in London and Freiburg.

Junker
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17th January 2012, 16:13
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,839
kaki3152 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Information concerning the loss of Ltn. Anton Elsinger - lost near the norwegian Coast - 18.12.1943

"On the other hand an unknown pilot of 12./JG 5 claimed a Mosquito shot down at 1505 hrs in Pl.Qu.06-Ost-50313, just close to the loss location of the Fw 58."

In JG-5 Band IV,this victory is listed as a Staffelabschuss. Maybe more than one pilot involved in the Abschuss.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 17th January 2012, 20:37
rickback4444 rickback4444 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1,561
rickback4444 is on a distinguished road
Re: Information concerning the loss of Ltn. Anton Elsinger - lost near the norwegian Coast - 18.12.1943

Hi Junker,

Thanks for your kind suggestion - it may well be a help.

I buy the sterbebild as a photographic record of the men who lost their lives in the air war over England.

The information I receive from the excellent researchers on this board is always recorded in detail. I hope to write a book in the future around the collection - with perhaps small research projects around each individual.

I find I spend more money on the specialist books that might have loss records to help provided information on these men. My greatest regret is that I didn't pay more attention in my German lessons.

Thanks for your help

Rick
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18th January 2012, 00:08
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,967
Jim P. will become famous soon enough
Re: Information concerning the loss of Ltn. Anton Elsinger - lost near the norwegian Coast - 18.12.1943

Rick, I resemble that remark on German lessons - for me it was the early 70s. What can I say except don't be do weed before going to class and don't answer the professor in French!

As per kaki3152 -18-Dec-43, , , Staffelabschuss, IV., 12., JG 5, Mosquito, PlQu. 06 Ost N / 50/3/1, 15.25, ., 19, yes, C.2031/II, Anerk: Nr. 3, Prien/Bock / Mombeek, JG 5, PlQu. 50 313/Ost at 15.05 per C.2031/II.

Last edited by Jim P.; 18th January 2012 at 00:16. Reason: add
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 18th January 2012, 08:41
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,917
Laurent Rizzotti is on a distinguished road
Re: Information concerning the loss of Ltn. Anton Elsinger - lost near the norwegian Coast - 18.12.1943

Thanks for the details about the Staffelabschuss
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Information concerning loss of Uffz, Wilfried Kratz, fighter pilot - lost 22.02.1944 rickback4444 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 12th December 2011 22:31
Information concerning loss of Uffz, Wilfried Kratz - lost 22.02.1944 rickback4444 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 1 11th December 2011 21:23
Information Concerning Loss of 2 brothers - Max and Anton Mittermaier rickback4444 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 6 2nd October 2011 22:37
F-84s vs MiGs Daniel Nole Post-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation 9 24th September 2010 21:29
Information Concerning Loss of Uffz. Anton Rosch - 08.05.1941 rickback4444 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 1 26th June 2010 18:42


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net