Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Pre-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation

Pre-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation before the Second World War.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 26th January 2020, 20:14
musec04 musec04 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,723
musec04 is on a distinguished road
Photo Two Bavarian Trainers

Hello,


Currently for sale on ebay at :


1. https://www.ebay.de/itm/Luftaufnahme...EAAOSwh4BeLcql


and


2.https://www.ebay.de/itm/Fotos-Fliege...YAAOSwITReLdHr


are interesting photos of two training aircraft in bavarian service.


1. Is Albatros C.I (Rol) 1811/15. The seller of this item has the aircraft as serving with FA (A) 263. However, the same aircraft is included in J Herris Albatros Aircradt of WW.I Vol.2 P.209 and one of the photod has ub-Flieg-Abt Sonthofen, where Königlich Bayerische Übungsflieger-Abteilung was based and to my mind this seems a more likely operator.As a further note this machine has an erroneous serial number on the tailplane of 1811/16.



2. Is Rumpler C.VIII 12585/17 known to have served with bMFS 4.


Regards,


Clint
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27th January 2020, 13:18
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,810
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: Photo Two Bavarian Trainers

Thanks Clint

Just want to point out that at least two of the other photos carry Fl (A) 263 on them....

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27th January 2020, 15:45
musec04 musec04 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,723
musec04 is on a distinguished road
Re: Photo Two Bavarian Trainers

Hi Stig,


Indeed they do. I assume that its possible for a pilot/observer to be trained in Bavaria (Saxony or Wuerttemberg) and subsequently transfer to a Prussian unit? I seem to recall that this was the case in some fighter units, without having details to hand at present. For sure FA (A) 263 wasn't a bavarian unit as frontflieger.de has the bavarian FA (A) as FA(A) 286b to FA (A) 298b inclusive.



Regards,


Clint
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 27th January 2020, 16:42
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,810
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: Photo Two Bavarian Trainers

Indeed Clint

Both aircraft, units and personal moved around.
Too little evidence if you ask me...

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27th January 2020, 17:20
musec04 musec04 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,723
musec04 is on a distinguished road
Re: Photo Two Bavarian Trainers

A further piece of circumstantial evidence. In the photo and indeed both photos in Albatros Aircraft of WW.I Vol.2 C.1811/5 is not armed. Points to a training unit?


Though inthe interest of full disclosure, I should add that the text to one of the photos states " Albatros C.1811/16 rests in the middle of a unit lineup of Albatros aircraft at the front" Though this is the photo with Üb-Flieg-Abt Sonthofen and Sonthofen would not be an obvious location for a front line unit.


Regards,


Clint
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27th January 2020, 18:44
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,810
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: Photo Two Bavarian Trainers

I agree with your observations Clint

However with the photo presently on sale, being in (for example) Peter Grosz collection means it has probably been circulating for quite a while and was/is probably in the possession of many individuals.

The basic dilemma with German aviation (pre-1945) is that so much has been lost and we keep looking at photos, a large number undated and without any solid information at all, and try to make educated guesses.

I am not saying you are wrong Clint, I am just saying there might be different alternatives.

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Eagles Over Europe Project Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 395 13th May 2019 22:28
The "Luftwaffe" Photo Collection at the BA, formerly in the US Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 20th July 2015 13:53
Seeking original print for color photo of Bf109E-4 WNr 3744 SKZ CI+EG Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 6th December 2012 22:54
Hans-Joachim Marseille by James H. Kitchens,III & John R. Beaman, Jr PhilippeDM Books and Magazines 2 20th July 2008 21:50
F/O John Greer Boyle, KIA 41 Sqn 28.9.40 - photo needed Geoff Kennell Allied and Soviet Air Forces 0 28th January 2005 16:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net