I am interested in luftwaffe losses. Can anyone sell me some info?

[pelagonia]

Dear Jim P.,

I do not know your database and how good or bad it is. Nevertheless, I wish to send you a word of support. It is easy to judge, less easy is to endeavour in the time-consuming (and sometimes frustrating) hobby of historical research. Unpoliteness seems to be a sign of the times...

[Tony Jones]

Pelagonia

And the suggestion by Jim P that I was some type of crook!!

Tony

[Peter D Evans]

I don't think Jim's comments were aimed at you Tony and this has all the hallmarks of being an unfortunate misunderstanding. I have a feeling that Jim's comment relate to a CDr which appeared on eBay a while back and this turned out to be his fledgling lists being sold without credit and at silly prices. I for one fell for the sale and although I didn't pay too much for the CDr, the seller was far from clear about his source. I can also confirm that even though I know Tony personally, he did not/or was behind the eBay auction...

cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

[John Vasco]

Tony,

+1 for the words written by Peter Evans. Jim P was badly ripped off some time ago, as Peter has outlined. Perhaps you were not aware of that - other members are, as information about this scam against him have been comprehensively covered in a thread some time ago on this forum. I think it is simply a misunderstanding on your part, and you should see it as such.

Hope this helps

[Tony Jones]

John

I was very angry when I read the post by Jim P. I have the Cd in question and as Peter Evans says he was glad it didn't cost too much. Anyway thanks for your post, let's just just forget it.

Peter, I know you have moved recently and so I don't know your new address but contact me if you still don't have the QM 6 losses and you may just get lucky

Regards

Tony

[ArtieBob]

I feel I must defend Jim P. This is the comment made by Tony Jones “Its not the rubbish produced by Jim P but scans of the original QM 6 docs”. If I were Jim P, I would have the right to feel insulted. Jim P has shared his work (and George’s) with me in the past and it was one of the first serious attempts to organize data on the Luftwaffe in a digital format.

The original basis was the QM loss records plus virtually every serious publication that contained Luftwaffe aircraft and crew member information plus Fb. and other primary documentation. It has been a huge undertaking and the format and content have evolved and grown through the years. IMHO it is the best and most complete effort of this type to date. To see this kind of work dismissed with such an offhand comment is not in good form.

Others have attempted to paste together databases from multiple individual sources, but IMHO, you cannot even know what questions to ask until you have the experience of having worked on a project like this for a while. My effort has already required over 10,000 hours and new data becomes available daily, plus editing and errata correction. If someone pirated a copy of my efforts from 10 plus years ago, it would be much less than what I have today, but still would not be rubbish, as there was nothing to compare with it at that time. If there are specific issues to be addressed that is a different matter, but probably not timely, if one is working with a hopelessly outdated version.

I don’t think Tony gets it, if he paid for a pirate copy stolen from Jim P’s earlier work, his criticism really is out of place to identify Jim P’s work as rubbish. Further; “And the suggestion by Jim P that I was some type of crook!”. This is another indication that Tony apparently does not get it. Jim P identified the unscrupulous individual as the one who was selling unauthorized copies of his work. So, Tony, unless you are selling copies of Jim P’s work; he is not referring to you. However, any distribution, even if it is free, of someone else’s work without their permission would seem to me to be unethical.

IMHO an apology is called for. In any case, Jim P. I appreciate your efforts and also thank you for your generosity in sharing .

Best regards,

Artie Bob

[leonventer]

Originally Posted by ArtieBob

I feel I must defend Jim P. ...
I don’t think Tony gets it ...
IMHO an apology is called for. In any case, Jim P. I appreciate your efforts and also thank you for your generosity in sharing .

Thank you for posting that, ArtieBob. I second those sentiments, and I believe the majority of this community does too.

Leon Venter

[John Vasco]

ArtieBob,
You are spot on in that you have said in post #16. Jim P was quite clear in who his criticism was directed at.

Tony,
Let's stop muckin' about here. You were very angry when you read the post by Jim P? Well go back and read it again properly and see what he really says (or read paragraph 4 of ArtieBob's post). Apologise for your ill-advised comment calling Jim P's work 'rubbish. It can be done - are you man enought to do so?

[Ruy Horta]

Ok...

While making a comment on E-mail addresses and editing the F-word upon a friendly request, I seem to have missed the ugly brew that was developing. Is that a case of missing the forrest through the trees?

As I indeed see it Tony made an offer to share his QM6 file, and Jim P made a general comment about his old work being sold outside of his control. At that point the misunderstanding starts.

If I understand correctly Jim didn't aim his comment at Tony, but Tony did comment rather harshly on Jim's work.

Gentlemen, if we can settle that particular issue, the rest is peanuts and we can go on with the regular business of sharing information.

Please consider all words written and take a moment to reflect.

As a side note, the original post was something that didn't feel right to me having been posted in the regular Luftwaffe forum, and upon further thought should have been moved to the Wanted section. I need not repeat that I allowed it to get out of hand in the first place.

[John Vasco]

I'm outta here if the censorship is such that a word in everyday use has been changed, and which conveys my feeling about how badly Jim P has been treated by someone who called all his original work rubbish. You should be getting after Tony Jones, not me.