Ark Royal Swordfish collision October 1939

[alanscheckenbach]

Hi All,

Can anyone help with dates, squadron and maybe names for a collision between two of Ark Royal's Stringbags that collided while out on patrol looking for the Graf Spee in the South Atlantic? Date is sometime in October 1939. Does any one have access to the ship's log?

Following is a cut of the incident from the book I found it in.

Any help will be really appreciated.

Thanks

Alan

From the book:



Aircraft Carriers. A Graphic History of Carrier Aviation and Its Influence on World Events, Norman Polmar. In collaboration with: General Minoru Genda, Captain Eric M. Brown, O.B.E., Professor Robert M. Langdon. MacDonald & Co. (Publishers) Ltd, London, 1969.

At the bottom of page 86 and the top of page 87 is the following passage:

Background is a discussion of the British carrier Ark Royal’s operations in the South Atlantic in October 1939 while they were chasing the Graf Spee.


“There was extreme boredom in flying patrol over a flat sea, most of the time with nothing in sight but sea and sky. Once the boredom was broken by tragedy. Two of the Ark Royal’s Swordfish were flying in formation when they entered a cloud; the planes closed on each other and one’s propeller chewed off the other’s tail. The pilot of the tail-less plane thought “she wasn’t answering well.” He looked around and saw he had no tail assembly. In these planes parachutes were not usually worn while flying, but were clipped onto the fliers harness when about to bail out. As the planes collided one gunner bailed out without waiting to clip on his parachute. He fell 3000 feet to the water and survived. Two of the six men in the two aircraft were killed.”

[Steve49]

In October 1939 the ARK ROYAL's Swordfish squadrons would have been 810 and 820.

Regards,

Steve

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

It was on the 25th of November 1939 that Swordfish from 810 Sqdn collided at 23Deg 48 mins South by 3 Deg 29 mins East.

P4009
"A2G"
Lt. W.S.Alexander
LA. L.M. Lloyd
AB. W. Freik
All safe

L2774
"A2M"
Lt. H. Pardoe
LA. Edgar.Henry.Shayler
LAC. Alan. Lawson (RAF)
Shaylor and Lawson both killed.

Details from FAA Aircraft 1939 to 1945 (Air Britain).

Alex

[Brian]

Hi guys

Beaten to the punch! Yes, I confirm Alex's findings.

While on the subject of 'Ark Royal' and this particular patrol in the South Atlantic, I have notes that suggest the 'Ark's' Swordfish or escorts accounted for five German blockade runners off the Spanish coast in February 1940 when returning to England. Can anyone confirm this and provides names of the ships concerned, please? And also dates?

Cheers
Brian

[Steve49]

Brian,

I guess the incidents you refer to followed the breakout from Vigo of six interned ships on the 10th February. The ARK ROYAL was part of the French/UK naval force that responded. According to Rohwer's 'Chronology of the war at sea 1939-1945 the merchant ships had the following fates;

ROSTOCK -Intercepted by FS ELAN 11/2/40
MOREA -Intercepted by HMS HASTY 12/2/40
WAHEHE -Intercepted by HMS MANCHESTER and HMS KIMBERLEY 21/2/40
ORIZABA -Evaded interception, but then ran aground in northern Norway
WANGONI -Evaded interception and reached Kiel
ARUCAS -Scuttled after being intercepted by HMS YORK 3/3/40.

Not clear what role ARK ROYAL's aircraft had, but it appears that they could only have been involved in the capture of the first two (WAHEHE was intercepted south of Iceland).

Regards,

Steve

[Brian]

Thanks Steve - that seems to prove that you can't believe all that you read!! The implications, at least!

Cheers
Brian

[alanscheckenbach]

Alex and Steve,

Many thanks for your replies.

I will pass this information to Jim Hamilton at the Freefall Research page.

http://www.greenharbor.com/fffolder/ffresearch.html

Jim has some pretty interesting WWII freefall survival stories there. Worth a look.

Thanks again

Alan

[alanscheckenbach]

Further to my question,

What rank is LA?
Is this the Fleet Air Arm equivalent to the RAF's Leading Aircraftman?

I'm also thinking the that AB stands for Able Seaman?

Given that I found that the FAA did have rating pilots, it would still be safe to assume that the Lieutenants were the pilots?

Thanks for any help

Alan

[Brian]

Hi Alan

L/A = Leading Airman
N/A = Naval Airman
AB as you say

No, one can't assume FAA Lieutenants were the pilots - in most crews a Lieutenant - if there was one - would be the observer, similar to the make up of Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine crews. Often in the FAA and RAF the pilot would be an NCO (Petty Officer/Sgt) with one or more officers in his crew - but the pilot would always be in command of the aircraft. I don't think this applied with the Lw. I may be wrong however.

Cheers
Brian

[alanscheckenbach]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your reply and clearing up what the ranks are.

Yes it was the same in the Luftwaffe, if an officer was aboard and a higher rank than the pilot, he would be the mission commander but the pilot retains command of the plane.

Cheers

Alan