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  #1  
Old 28th September 2009, 18:02
Christian Schulz's Avatar
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Question Zerstörer - Unit codes

Not having my books here I got myself a bit in an information twist regarding Zerstörer units and the codes used here. Unfortunately www.ww2.dk is sometimes not much of a help, so I'd be glad if you experts here could help me straighten out the mess regarding tactical codes. Thx in advance!



Stab/ZG 1
  • formed 1942 from Stab/SKG 210; code S9
I./ZG 1
  • formed 1939, disbanded June 1940; code G9
  • reformed 1942 from I./SKG 210, renamed I./ZG 26 in 1943 ; code S9
  • reformed from V./KG 40 in 1943, code ??
II./ZG 1
  • formed 1939, became III./ZG 76 in 1940; code G9
  • reformed 1942 from II./SKG 210; code S9
III./ZG 1
  • formed 1942; code S9
  • renamed II./ZG 26 and reformed in 1943, code ??
I also have the code 2N for 1943/44 - did ZG 1 change codes at that point or were those "just" used by II. and III. Gruppen?



Stab/ZG 2
  • formed and disbanded 1940; code 3M
  • reformed and disbanded 1942; code 2S
I./ZG 2
  • formed 1939 and disbanded 1940; code 3M
  • reformed and disbanded 1942; code 2S
II./ZG 2
  • formed 1940 from I./ZG 52 and disbanded 1940; code A2
  • reformed 1942 and became I./NJG 5 same year; code 2S
III./ZG 2
  • formed 1942 and became III./SKG 10; code 2S
Stab/ZG 26
  • formed 1939 and became Stab/NJG 3 in 1941; code U8 (????)
  • reformed 1943; code ??
I./ZG 26
  • formed 1939, disbanded 1942; code E8 (????)
  • reformed 1943 from I./ZG 1; code ??
II./ZG 26
  • formed 1939, disbanded 1942; code U8 (????)
  • reformed 1943 from III./ZG 1; code ??
III./ZG 26
  • formed 1939, became Kdo Nowotny in 1944; code 3U
Stab/ZG 76
  • formed 1940, became Stab/JaFü Norwegen in 1941; code M8
  • reformed 1943; code ??
I./ZG 76
  • formed 1939, became II./NJG 1 in 1940; code M8
  • reformed 1943; code ??
II./ZG 76
  • formed 1939, became III./NJG 3 in 1941; code M8
  • reformed 1943; code M8 (?)
III./ZG 76
  • formed 1940 and became II./SKG 210 in 1941; code M8
  • reformed 1943; code ??
Is that about right? Can anyone help me fill the gaps? Thx!
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  #2  
Old 29th September 2009, 02:26
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Re: Zerstörer - Unit codes

The code for ZG 26 was changed from U8 to 3U as early as July 1940, although both were used until 1941 when 3U became permanent. In the Defense of the Reich, colored numbers were also used. An example is a Messerschmitt Me 410A-2 with the code of 3U + EP of 6./ZG 26.

ZG 76 in 1943 used 2N. Many aircraft also used the colored numbering system of the Jagdwaffe. An example is the Messerschmitt Bf 110G-2 with the code of 2N + EM of 4./ZG 76.

See Luftwaffe Codes, Markings & Units by Barry Rosch.
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Old 29th September 2009, 05:58
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Re: Zerstörer - Unit codes

Hmm, I have the a/c of ZG 76 in 1943/44 with the ID M8. For example, M8+NR, a Bf110G-3 of 7./ZG76, shot down on 29.11.43. And, M8+Chevron 2, an Me 410 B-2, shot down on 27.6.44, belonging to the Geschwader Stab of ZG 76. But, I do see the occasional 2N marking on these aircraft, so what is the guideline on them?

And, while Sylvester is correct about the 3U of ZG 26, I am a bit doubtful of 3U+EP of 6./ZG 26 being an Me 410 A-2, because, while Mtt built 6 of them in the spring of 1943 I doubt that any would be around for very long, and those that were would practically be impossible to identify correctly.

Last edited by George Hopp; 29th September 2009 at 07:56.
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Old 29th September 2009, 07:51
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Re: Zerstörer - Unit codes

As to the ZG 76 second installment.
III. Gruppe used 2N+ code...but its formation has never completed (9th Staffel never existed).
Stab, I. and II. Gruppe ZG 76 were having code M8+ !!!! Photos showing a/c with other than this are from the months of late August 1943 and September, when unit was in phase of becoming new or used a/c Bf 110 and in training mode. Since October all a/c had proper marking with M8+ letter code..in January 1944 lettering was abandoned at the unit and digits in Staffel colors were used, e.g. M8+ black 2. For the Bf 110 the M8+digit was used, for the Me 410s M8 digit + format was used (number ahead of fuselage cross)

Hope this helps....(information based on photos and Flugbucher/documents readings
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"Geschichte des Zerstörergeschwader 76 (Zweite Aufstellung 1943-45)"

Last edited by Peter Kassak; 29th September 2009 at 08:55.
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Old 29th September 2009, 08:50
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Re: Zerstörer - Unit codes

So to simplify the issue (the work I'm doing is for Il-2 Sturmovik 1946, I am tidying up and correcting the german unit list for a future patch) it would mean ZG26 (2nd installment) would use 3U and ZG 76 (2nd installment) would use M8, except III./ZG 76 which would use 2N. Is that about right? Anything on the 1943 formations of I. and III./ZG 1?
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Old 29th September 2009, 08:53
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Re: Zerstörer - Unit codes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Schulz View Post
... and ZG 76 (2nd installment) would use 2N. Is that about right?
SO please READ again my posting....ZG 76 second installment M8...!
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Old 29th September 2009, 09:15
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Re: Zerstörer - Unit codes

Yes, I edited my post ...
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Old 29th September 2009, 11:17
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Re: Zerstörer - Unit codes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Schulz View Post
Not having my books here I got myself a bit in an information twist regarding Zerstörer units and the codes used here. Unfortunately www.ww2.dk is sometimes not much of a help, so I'd be glad if you experts here could help me straighten out the mess regarding tactical codes. Thx in advance!





Stab/ZG 1
  • formed 1942 from Stab/SKG 210; code S9
I./ZG 1
  • formed 1939, disbanded June 1940; code G9
  • reformed 1942 from I./SKG 210, renamed I./ZG 26 in 1943 ; code S9
  • reformed from V./KG 40 in 1943, code ??
II./ZG 1
  • formed 1939, became III./ZG 76 in 1940; code G9
  • reformed 1942 from II./SKG 210; code S9
III./ZG 1
  • formed 1942; code S9
  • renamed II./ZG 26 and reformed in 1943, code ??
I also have the code 2N for 1943/44 - did ZG 1 change codes at that point or were those "just" used by II. and III. Gruppen?





Stab/ZG 2
  • formed and disbanded 1940; code 3M
  • reformed and disbanded 1942; code 2S
I./ZG 2
  • formed 1939 and disbanded 1940; code 3M
  • reformed and disbanded 1942; code 2S
II./ZG 2
  • formed 1940 from I./ZG 52 and disbanded 1940; code A2
  • reformed 1942 and became I./NJG 5 same year; code 2S
III./ZG 2
  • formed 1942 and became III./SKG 10; code 2S
Stab/ZG 26
  • formed 1939 and became Stab/NJG 3 in 1941; code U8 (????)
  • reformed 1943; code ??
I./ZG 26
  • formed 1939, disbanded 1942; code E8 (????)
  • reformed 1943 from I./ZG 1; code ??
II./ZG 26
  • formed 1939, disbanded 1942; code U8 (????)
  • reformed 1943 from III./ZG 1; code ??
III./ZG 26
  • formed 1939, became Kdo Nowotny in 1944; code 3U
Stab/ZG 76
  • formed 1940, became Stab/JaFü Norwegen in 1941; code M8
  • reformed 1943; code ??
I./ZG 76
  • formed 1939, became II./NJG 1 in 1940; code M8
  • reformed 1943; code ??
II./ZG 76
  • formed 1939, became III./NJG 3 in 1941; code M8
  • reformed 1943; code M8 (?)
III./ZG 76
  • formed 1940 and became II./SKG 210 in 1941; code M8
  • reformed 1943; code ??
Is that about right? Can anyone help me fill the gaps? Thx!
OK, Christian, let's get it right for you, and others, once and for all.

Stab, ZG 1 (1939) = 2N
Stab, ZG 1 (Jan 1942) = S9
Stab, ZG 1 (around mid-1943 onwards) = S9 (but possibly a switch to 2N at some point - no Geschwadestab aircraft losses recorded, so difficult to call this one)

I./ZG 1 (1939-1940) = 2N
I./ZG 1 (Jan 1942) = S9
I./ZG 1 (from V./KG 40) = 2N

II./ZG 1 (1939-1940) = 2N
II./ZG 1 (Jan 1942) = S9
II./ZG 1 (by Jan 1944) = 2N

III./ZG 1 (Jan 1942) = S9
III./ZG 1 (latter part of 1943 onwards) = 2N

ZG 2, fine.

Stab, ZG 26 = 3U

I./ZG 26 = initially U8, first half of 1941, changed to 3U
I./ZG 26 (1943) = 3U, later used numerals, I believe.

II./ZG 26 = 3U
II./ZG 26 (1943) = 3U, later used numerals, I believe.

III./ZG 26 = 3U

Stab ZG 76 = M8
I./ZG 76 = M8
II./ZG 76 = M8
III./ZG 76 = 2N
(All four above correct for 1940 period)
When elements of ZG 76 were reformed in the late war years, they carried the code 'M8'. They did NOT carry the code '2N'. Many publications over the years have erroneously captioned Bf 110s with the code '2N' as being ZG 76. That is incorrect. They are ZG 1 machines.

Hope this helps.
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  #9  
Old 29th September 2009, 11:32
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Thumbs up Re: Zerstörer - Unit codes

Thx, John!

Looking at what I can do within the confines of the Il-2 engine and what I'd like to do I simply made a broad sweep and made as generic but accurate entries as possible. As a result I now have ZG 1 with 2N, ZG 26 with 3U and ZG 76 with M8 across the board. I know this ain't right for all times, but I already have over 200 entries for the Luftwaffe alone (and I have yet to look at the recon and transport units) and I don't want to clog up the drop-down selection any more than absolutely necessary.
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Old 29th September 2009, 11:59
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Re: Zerstörer - Unit codes

Hello

Thanks all for an interesting post.

Am I correct in stating that both SKG 210 and Erpr 210 use the code S9? If this is correct over what period did each unit use it. Did one of both units also use 2N?

I have always been a bit confused by this.

Thanks in advance

Chris
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