P-38 crash Devon UK 26 jan 1943

[Alex Smart]

Hi,

Foreman may have been returning from the ferry flight to NA due to some problem or other.

Also he may have been ferrying the a/c from Ireland . There is a link to the 78FG there as their P38's I beleive were sent there when the P47's started to arrive. IIRC I got that from "Eagles of Duxford" but not sure now.

Night

Alex

[brewerjerry]

Hi All,
Been browsing the net, and found interestingly that a flight of P-38's was intercepted by Ju-88's in Nov 42, and one shot down and one returned to cornwall,
So maybe there is another possibility of the reason for return, not only weather / mechanical problems / but maybe enemy action ? This might explain the lack of any mention of radio contact with the P-38.
Seems from net research that the P-38's went first to Ireland for modifications then flew out to NA.
But in this case, foreman for some reason definitely took off from Portreath for the flight.
Also seems a newspaper article in america in '43 mentioned he was awarded the DFC, ( bit more research... )
Thanks all, the trail is closer to the end but not there yet !!
Cheers
Jerry

[brewerjerry]

Hi ,
link to web page with losses for
42-12905 & 42-12928
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/lait/site/...2-12905%20.htm
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/lait/site/P-38%2042-12928.htm
cheers
Jerry

[brewerjerry]

Hi All,


A bump from the depths


just wonderng if foreman's aircraft was 43-2369, P-38G-15-LO.


as mentioned earlier 67MU records recovering a P-38 , 2369, [no date ]

cheers
Jerry

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
43-2886 was a Grasshopper.
Alex

[brewerjerry]

Hi All
Just a bump incase any new info has emerged over the years
cheers
jerry

[Phil Irwin]

Hi Jerry!

Rupe has looked into this recently.

Foreman was not alone on this flight, they hit bad weather. I think 2 other P-38s were lost near Portugal (?)

Looks like Foreman turned back then got lost, flying into high ground.

[Alex Smart]

Hello Jerry,
If I understand correctly the date has been reassessed to the 26-01-1943.
So this from my earlier post -

Seems that the 78 FG had a Ferry Flight of 9 aircraft on the 26th.
Not a very successful flight as here are details of five of them.
So if Foreman was a sixth then can we find the remaining three that probably made it to Gibraltar ?

"26th Jan 43
P38F 43-2135 Jack R. Brown 78FG 82FS.
Crash
P38F 43-2148 Richard L.Rope killed in crash at Albufeira, Portugal on ferry flight.
Missing
P38F 41-7576 Donald S. Beals 78FG, 83 FS.
one of a flight of 9 a/c on a ferry flight to Gibraltar.
Salvaged
P38G 42-12905 Henry L. Perry jr 78FG, 83 FS.
mid air collision over Yorkshire with
P38G 42-12928 Stephen L. White 78FG, 82 FS
Both pilots killed.".

42-12886 still looks to be the favourite?

From "Eagles of Duxford", a note about January '43.
'The entire camp took on a happier air as the pilots returned from Burtonwood and Scotland with the Groups new P-38G's.
And
It was necessary to equip some of the P-38s with dust filters for African desert operations. The afternoon of the Chelveston return, several flights left for the Lockheed Lightning Modification Depot at Langford Lodge, Ireland to receive the filters.

The first 78th P-47s arrived on January 29th when four of the aircraft were ferried in from the Air Depot. Two ferry pilots were killed the next day.

Alex

[RSwank]

Jerome L Foreman's 106 page IDPF file can be downloaded from here:

https://www.americanairmuseum.com/ar...media-22344pdf

The file was donated to the museum by Bill Beigel. I am not sure the file is complete as it does not contain the usual pages used to identify the body. The cover page says there should be 114 pages.

A link mentioning Beigel's donation (search for Foreman):

https://www.ww2research.com/news/ame...iles-donation/

Page 2 and page 105 do give the serial number of the plane as 42-2886, so the error was in the original file.



The crash site description in the IDPF file seems to refer to this location:

https://www.torsofdartmoor.co.uk/tor...tor=broad-rock

Nuns Cross Farm is just off the map to the north (drag the map down a little).

Orange mark on Google Maps is the location of Broad Rock. Crash site is 600 yards to the east.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/50...!1e3?entry=ttu


Note there is also a thread discussing this event here:

http://www.warbirdinformationexchang...3461&mobile=on

Note that there is mention that 42-12886 was condemned in 1944.

http://raf-112-squadron.org/82ndfghonor_roll.html

[Alex Smart]

Take a look at Lt.Donald S,Beals MACR, only seven pages but gives details of the ferry flight .
MACR 3210.

2Lt.Donald S. Beals ,O-728959 flying P-38 41-7566 (41-7576 ?) departed Portreath for Tafaroui as one of a flight of 9 aircraft.
Message was received that 6 aircraft had arrived at Gibraltar At the time it was not known if Beals aircraft was one of the 3 unreported.
Page 5 however gives more details.
Departed Station 345(Goxhill) at 1200hrs 21st January 1943 in formation of 16 aircraft led by Major G, Caldwell- Russell. 16 aircraft landed at Station 504(Portreath) on 21 January 1943.
14 of the original 16 took off from Station 504(Portreath) between 0900 and 1000 hrs destination 12 AAF.
Of the 14 aircraft ,3 aborted. It is not known if 2Lt Beals aircraft was one of the aborted aircraft.
Person who last saw the aircraft was Major Joe Filkins,(?) Hq 8AAF who inspected the aircraft prior to departure from Station 504 (Portreath) for North Africa.
So there are some differences, ie flight of 9 a/c turns out to be 16 , then down to 14 of which 3 were said to have aborted. So that would mean that 11 made it to North Africa but only 6 made it to Gibraltar .

Anyway something to think about.
Only 3 aircraft were known to have "aborted " not 4.
If two of the original 16 aircraft did not take part in the flight to Gibraltar/North Africa . Perhaps because of some mechanical problem or maybe lack of the aforesaid dust filters then maybe, Foreman was not actually part of the North Africa flight but was actually returning one of the two aircraft back to Goxhill when he crashed ?

Perhaps another search to find the serial numbers of the 16 and then find which two were left behind ?