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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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Old 7th October 2018, 01:41
Larry Larry is offline
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Lockheed Ventura four gun turret

I was watching Pathe News films on line and saw that in one film concerning Ventura Ops of 2 Group RAF in the UK, that a few Venturas one of which was carrying SB codes of 464 Sqn RAAF, had turrets equipped with four 0.303 machine guns, in a smaller profiled dorsal turret nothing like the original Boulton-Paul domed type seen on Lockheed Hudsons and early Venturas, nor was it the Martin turret with two 0.50 Browning MGs.

According to my references the Mk I had the BP domed turret and P&W R-1850 engines, the Mk II had the same armament but P&W R-2000 engines. The Mk IIA had the dorsal turret from Martin and so did the Mk GR V. So which Mk used the four gun turret and why no mention of it in books covering 'RAF' use of Venturas in 2 Group aircraft?


NB - Ignore reference to 21 Sqn in the last photo - that's my error.
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Old 7th October 2018, 14:08
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: Lockheed Ventura four gun turret

This is the Boulton Paul Type A, as originally fitted to the Defiant and later to the Halifax. This appears to have been a rare fitting, which is probably why it is missing from most if not all sources. My only previous encounter with it was on a modelling board, when writer and modeller Tony O'Toole spotted it when researching Venturas. I believe this research was published in a modelling magazine, but I'm afraid I don't know which.
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Old 7th October 2018, 14:23
Zoran Petek Zoran Petek is offline
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Re: Lockheed Ventura four gun turret

SAAF 25 Sqn used Boulton Paul Type A Mk.VI turret on both Mk.I and Mk.II Venturas in Italy 1944.
Long time ago I made a list of all known 25 Sqn Venturas and their missions with 254 Wing BAF
http://www.maketarstvo.net/forum/vie...=30645&start=0
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Old 7th October 2018, 15:22
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is offline
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Re: Lockheed Ventura four gun turret

Hello,

Try these:

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/1-jpg.77428/

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/2-jpg.77429/

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/3-jpg.77430/

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/4-jpg.77431

Originally published in:

Boulton Paul Defiant
Ansell,Mark
Mushroom Model Publications,2005 (Yellow series)

Col.
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Old 7th October 2018, 20:20
Larry Larry is offline
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Re: Lockheed Ventura four gun turret

Thanks for the info; very useful.

I'm a great fan of Tony O'Toole too
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Old 9th October 2018, 01:08
Larry Larry is offline
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Re: Lockheed Ventura four gun turret

A clear photo of the four gun turret.
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Old 9th October 2018, 01:35
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is offline
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Re: Lockheed Ventura four gun turret

Hello,

A clearer shot of the 4-gun installation on a No.464 Sqn RAAF Ventura II (SB-N): https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C252270

Col.
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Old 9th October 2018, 02:28
Orwell1984 Orwell1984 is offline
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Re: Lockheed Ventura four gun turret

Another shot of H 464 Squadron with a Royal visitor.



https://www.flickr.com/photos/highcrest/16390013275


Attached are some images of 25 SAAF four gun Venturas found here:
http://www.pwm.org.pl/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83537
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t8wo7e.jpg (191.5 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg RLNsVf.jpg (194.5 KB, 12 views)
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Old 9th October 2018, 13:35
stefaan stefaan is offline
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Re: Lockheed Ventura four gun turret

Hi.
SAAF Venturas and Baltimores were either those that were obtained via purchase, or Lend-Lease.
Those that were bought could be changed by the RAF as they wanted, but those on Lend-Lease had to stay as the Americans supplied them. Those that were bought had the RAF preferred Boulton Paul turrets with .303 ammo, and those on Lend lease twin gunned .50 Browning guns.
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Old 9th October 2018, 15:00
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: Lockheed Ventura four gun turret

Lend-Lease doesn't seem to have been quite that rigid. The aircraft had to be supplied to USAAF (or USN) standards, but that didn't prevent later modifications once delivered. In some, if unusual, cases, aircraft were built specifically to British standards as with the Corsairs and their clipped wingtips, or the Liberators modified in the US before delivery to the UK. Other normal changes once arrived would include radios, seat belts etc. Perhaps it was required that aircraft, if returned the US, would have to be restored to their original standard?

Regarding Venturas, those operating with 2 Group from the UK would have been to original British orders, so there could be no problem with any changes in armament. The Mk.Vs will have been Lend-Lease and delivered with US armament, but from the photos of SAAF aircraft in the Mediterranean clearly they were rearmed more to the taste of their operators.
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