23/1/44 KG76 Ju88 Crash near Toulouse

[gilles collaveri]

Hi all,

on 23/1/44, a Ju88A4 (Wnr 300232) F1+0U from IV KG76 crashes at Mauzac near Toulouse, apparently killing its crew (which included Günther Fischbach ). A picture of the crew is now for sale.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Foto-KG....c100010.m2109

Anymore info on the crash ?

On the crew ?

thanks in advance;

Gilles

[Nick Beale]

From National Archives HW 5/427 …

[Siko54]

That's amazing - only 2 days afterwards BP had decoded the signal?

[gilles collaveri]

Hi Siko54 , Sorry for my ignorance.

but can you please explain what is "BP" ?

And what you mean with "has decoded the signal " ?

Best

GC

[Dan History]

Dear Gilles,

BP stands for Bletchley Park, more formally known as the Government Code & Cypher School (GC&CS). Its most famous work was the decryption of German secret radio messages which had been encrypted using the 'Enigma' and 'Lorenz' cypher machines. The British codename for the intelligence based on these decrypts was 'ULTRA'.

Nick Beale is, of course, one of the foremost experts on the subject of 'ULTRA' and has provided a photo of the top half of the page from the following filed held at The National Archives:

Reference: HW 5/427
Description: German section: reports of German army and air force high grade machine decrypts
Date: Jan 25 1944-Jan 26 1944

https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C4303993

Regards,

Dan

[gilles collaveri]

thanks a lot, Dan, for taking time to answer me;

Of course I knew Bletchey Park but I did not the know the acronym and the fact that decryption started on Jan. 1944.

I am also very grateful to Nick for the documents he brings to us, shedding light on so many events.

I discovered that the crew of this Ju88 was as follows (quote) :
"Uffz. Fischbach, Uffz. Kühnel, Gefr. Spech, Gefr. Spude(?), Am 23.1.1944 um 10.30u tötlich abgestürzt"
any information on these guys would be welcome;

All best

Gilles

[Jim P.]

In Jan Horn's book on KG 76 and the Ar 234 he lists the following losses for 23-Jan-44.

Ju 88A-14, 144557, n.n., , IV., 10., KG 76, , F1+GU, , , 23-Jan-44, Bruchlandung due to engine trouble., , FR, Horn, KG 76, p.387, , Fl.Pl. Toulouse-Francazal, 10%, H, , ,
Ju 88A-4, 300232, n.n., , IV., 10., KG 76, , F1+OU, , , 23-Jan-44, Engine failure during dive training., , FR, Horn, KG 76, p.387, , Mauzac, 30km südsüdwestlich Toulouse, 90%, H, , ,

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by gilles collaveri

Of course I knew Bletchey Park but I did not the know the acronym and the fact that decryption started on Jan. 1944.

All best

Gilles

Decryption started just before the war, on a very limited scale but large numbers of messages were being read in the April 1940 Scandinavian Campaign and after late May 1940 from the Luftwaffe and Army in France.

The files of deciphered messages run consecutively from HW 5/1 to HW 5/703 — and that's just Luftwaffe/Army material. There are separate series for the Navy, the Italian Navy, diplomatic signals the various German police/security services and the German railways.

[RT]

And, could we know, Nick, what namehv the serie concerning the german navy ?
THks
Rémi

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by RT

And, could we know, Nick, what namehv the serie concerning the german navy ?
THks
Rémi

The DEFE 3/ series contains all the Kriegsmarine messages but they are not in an easy continuous sequence. I've found the best thing to do is to use the National Archives advanced search page.

All the Naval messages I know about hav a serial number that begins ZTPG (which I think stands for Zip TelePrint German. "ZIP" seems to be the Royal Navy's word for ULTRA intelligence). Anyhow …

In the "exact word or phrase" box type either "ZTPG", "ZTPGM" (= Mediterranean), "ZTPGU" (= U-boats) or "ZTPGR" (= Russia, traffic from the Black Sea).

In the "any of these references" type "DEFE 3/".

For "search a date range" it is OK either to put two different years or you can put (say) 1942 in both boxes.

Press "search" and your results will appear. There are the usual options to sort them and I usually go for "Date - ascending"