Farman F.393 F-ANFS

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay at :


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-franzos...4AAOSwTh1eREy4


is a photo of Farman F.393 F-ANFS. Does anyone know which unit operated this machine? I'd also be interested if anyone could identify the serial on the other aircraft in the photo.




Edit. I am fairly sure the other machine is F.391 F-AMTE . See http://www.crezan.net/pag_f190/391_02.html



Regards,


Clint

[edwest2]

Hello Clint,


I can't be certain but based on similar photos I've seen, it may be that some Aero Club aircraft were stored in the same hangars as military aircraft.


Best,
Ed

[musec04]

Hi Ed,


Thanks for the reply. I hadn't looked at the link I posted to F-AMTE when I asked the question. Given that F-AMTE was with a section d'avions sanitaires, possibly F-ANFS was too?


Regards,


Clint

[Tom Willis]

The location of the wrecked Farman's is Etampes - not far from Paris - I think

[musec04]

Hello Tom,


Thanks for the reply. The site at crezan.net/pag_f190/393_05.html does state that F-ANFS was captured and sored in a poor state at Etampes Mondesir.


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Clint

In my opinion the roundels show the aircraft to have been impressed by the French armed forces.
Exactly when this happened is unknown by me and sadly it is a very neglected topic researched.

Both France and England basically followed the same "rules", ie forbidding private flying and at the same time impressing as many civil aircraft as possible. Aircraft more or less useless for military purposes were then stored.

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hi Stig,


Yes, I agree. I think given the date, I would think it likely that (tempting fate here) that almost any french aircraft with civil codes and roundels is likely to be an impressed machine.


Regards,


Clint

[edwest2]

The question is, if they were impressed, I think the purpose for doing so would be established first. I mean, depending on the type, was it reconnaissance, liaison transport or something else?



Ed

[Stig Jarlevik]

Yes I would say you are pretty accurate there Nick

A good question Ed, and admittedly I am on thin ice when answering, but from a general point, I would say most countries in Europe placed a ban on civil flying (except needed commercial flying useful for the authorities as such). Countries being neutral, such as Sweden, later allowed some general flying to take place when it was realised both private individuals as well as certain flying clubs could be of some use.

I think the basic/general idea was in fact to stop all waste of resources, petrol for example became immediately rather scarce and the thinking was probably to simply place "small" or rather "useless" aircraft in storage.

After a while it was realised by the warring nations that instead of just putting aircraft in "barns" some might actually be quite useful for the military effort for example being used for both training and liasion, hence the impressment of useful types. I doubt any impressed aircraft were actually intended for frontline service, but certain transport aircraft indeed found themselves "in the thick of it" even if that was not the intention....

From where I sit I would say it was easier in Great Britain since a large number of civil aircraft (such as DH Moth and Tiger Moth) were already in military service and must have been very easily incorporated within RAF.
Without having studied the subject, it was probably more difficult with France but the Caudron and larger Farman types must also have been very useful.
The impression I get is that it was more organized in GB and a bit more haphazard in France, but that could well be me not knowing the exact details.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who has actually studied this subject and find out how all this took place in more detail.

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hello Stig and Ed,




As per my post number 3 in this thread F-AMTE was used as flying ambulance and so, possibly F-ANFS too.


Generally, I agree though it would be good to have an expert comment on general principles for impressment. It does seem though that a large number of aircraft used by the aero clubs in particular were 'loaned' by the French state to the clubs prewar and then taken over when needed with the commencement of the war.Even relatively small aircraft such as the Potez 600 and the Salmson D.6 Cri-Cri then being operated by the Ecoles Elementaire de Pilotages and others as'Estafettes' which I believe equates to liaison.



Regards,


Clint