Fixed forward firing 20 mm MG FF on Do 17

[Mikael Olrog]

Some Do 17 Z employed by 2./NJG 2 in September 1940 was fitted with a fixed forward firing 20 mm MG FF in the lower part of the glasnose as showin in photos on page 64 in Meyer/Stipdonk's book "Die Deutsche Luftwaffe - Zerstörer- und Nachtjagdverbände teil 2".

Is it known if the practice of fitting a MG FF canon in this position was employed by other non-night fighter units?
/Mike

[Juha]

Hello Mikael
According to Price the Do 17Zs of 9./KG 76, it was a staffel specialized to low-level attacks, had 20mm Oerlikon cannon in place of the lower forward firing MG 15. As MG FF was a development of Oerlikon FF F, which itself was a development of the German WW I 20mm Becker cannon, I understand that Price means MG FF / MG FF/M and its placement seems to have been same as in 2./NJG 2 planes.

Juha

[Andy Saunders]

Apart from 9./KG76 I know that there is evidence that some KG2 Do17s lost over the UK in August 1940 were fitted with a 20mm FF in the nose glazing. I forget the Gruppe/Staffel offhand, but can check.

PS - Have checked. Two aircraft of 3./KG2 lost on 16 August 1940 certainly had 20mm FF cannon fitted.

[Mikael Olrog]

Excellent, thanks! No I know that I can't attribute the photo I have automatically to NJG 2 but have to take in to account both KG 2 and KG 76 as possible units for this aircraft.

Mike

[Juha]

Hello again Mikael
after looking a photo of a Do 17Z of 9./KG 7 , the cannon seems to have too long barrel for MG FF / MG FF/M, so maybe a MG 204, a rare 20mm cannon used by LW before introduction of MG 151, it used longer ammo than MG FF and had also longer barrel.

Juha

[Mikael Olrog]

Hi Juha,

A MG 204 is preserved in Narvik, recovered from one of the Do 26s that sunk. Haven't seen any other preserved examples of that type.

Attached is a close-up of the 20 mm gun in the photo I have for reference.
/Mike

[ahafan]

Originally Posted by Mikael Olrog

Hi Juha,

A MG 204 is preserved in Narvik, recovered from one of the Do 26s that sunk. Haven't seen any other preserved examples of that type.

Attached is a close-up of the 20 mm gun in the photo I have for reference.
/Mike

Could these do 17 used. be for night fighting future planes.as why the cannon .? and glazing painted over. (sic)
sharon

[Juha]

Hello Mikael
interesting photos, the weapon in the Do 17Z might well be a MG FF / FF/M without the casing around the barrel usually seen in flexible MG FFs. I'm still wondering the cannon in the photo of a Do 17Z of 9./KG 76 in the Price's book, its barrel seems longer and slimmer than even that of MG 204, could it have been Oerlikon FF L which had longer barrel than MG 204, if LW ever procured any of them.

[Andy Saunders]

Those recovered from UK wrecks of Dornier 17 Z aircraft have certainly been 20mm FF M and I am certain this is what is fitted in the 9./KG76 photograph you refer to.

[Juha]

Thanks Andy!
the lack of the thick casing with the sight around the barrel, which made MG FF so easily recognised in He 111s, Do 217s and early He 177s, clearly confused me.

Juha