Can anyone identify the TBM-3E2?

[Graham Boak]

According to the excellent Warpaint no 87, the RN received a mix of TBM-3E and TMB-3E2 aircraft postwar. The booklet does not tell me what the differences between these aircraft were. Sturtivant/Burrows/Howard only refers to 100 TBM-3E.

[Alex Smart]

Hello Graham,
FAA Fixed-Wing A/c since 1946.
page 344,
50 Grumman TBM-3E Avenger III under cont No. NOa(S)228, Requisition No. N-947 and numbered KE430 to KE479. Bu Nos. 91229-91278. All deld Roosevelt Field 7.45. (1,850hp Wright Cyclone R-2600-20.
page 346
100 Grumman Avenger TBM-3E supplied by the US Government under the Mutual Defense Assistance Programme and numbered XB296 to XB332, XB355 to XB404 and XB437 to XB479. Shipped to UK then disembarked to King George V Dock, Glasgow, and towed by road to AHU Abbotsinch. Fitted by Scottish Aviation Ltd with basic British equipment such as radios, safety equipment etc. Mainly converted to AS.4 (fittrd ASH), AS.5 (fitted ASV.19A) & ECM.6. BuAer Nos from range 53050 to 91737. (One 1,750hp Wright Cyclone R-2600-20).
There is also on the same page:
10 mixed TBM-1,TBM-1c and TBM-3 in the VT501 to VT510 serial number range, only one a/c VT508 is given in detail though.
6 TBM-1c & TBM-3 numbered VL994 to VL999, BuNos 73164,46038,16958,73302,86177 & 85978.
And
30 TBM-1, TBM-1c & TBM-3 numbered VL432 to VL461.
Only three are given in detail, VL444,445 and 451.
From FAA A/c 1939 to 1945
page 228
86 TBM-3 serial numbers JZ635 to JZ720.
page289
26 TBM-3 serial numbers JZ721 to JZ746 , no evidence of delivery to RN.
50 TBM-3E serial numbers KE430 to479, But 434,438,440,444,448 to 453, 457 to 459, 462, 464 and 468 to 479 not delivered to RN.
page 290
60 TBM-3 serial numbers KE480 to KE539 not delivered to RN.
30 TBM-1, TBM-1c & TBM-3 serials VL432 to VL461 but only one VL444 traced.
10 TBM-1, TBM-1c & TBM-3 serials VL501 to VL510 but only one traced VL508.
6 TBM-1c & TBM-3 serials VL994 to VL999 reported to Sydney in HMS Reaper 9.45.
Hope this is of use.
Alex

[twocee]

The 100 MDAP aircraft were all TBM-3Es. Full details of their histories (USN/RN)is given in two Aeromilitaria articles I wrote with Ray Sturtivant in 2001.

There was no such model as the TBM-3E2.

[Graham Boak]

Thanks for that - I do apologise because the author does go on to say that the TBM-3E was the AS Mk.4 and the TBM-3E2 was the AS Mk.5, so he hasn't left it quite as undefined as I implied. However, the 3E2 designation was new to me, and apparently also to others.

I do have the FAA postwar book - and also the Aeromilitaria so I can dig them out. However, clearly they would not help.

[twocee]

According to the FAA's Avenger Pilot's Notes, the A.S.5 was distinguished from the A.S.4 by the radar, ASH in the 4 replaced by ASV 19A in the 5.

ASH was the equivalent of the American AN/APS-4 and so I wonder whether the ASV 19A had an American equivalent as well?

The three USN models used for ASW post-war, TBM-3E, TBM-3S, TBM-3S2 all used the old APS-4.

[Graham Boak]

There is a picture in the Warpaint of an AS Mk.5, and the ASV is a much fatter pod (than ASH) carried under the starboard wing. There are no pictures of this pod with any other navy. However, the text does mention TBM-3W and 3W2, and TBM-3S and TBM-S2, so the terminology appears to be that of the USN.

However, ASV 19A appears to have been a British design.
http://www.ekco-electronics.co.uk/ASV19/ASV19.htm
so whatever the 2 suffix may have meant to the USN, it is unlikely to be a reference to this ASV.

[Alex Smart]

Hello Graham,

take a peek at the serial numbers in the JB list, some TBM-3E2's are noted.
http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_serials/navyserials.html
Alex

[twocee]

Graham,

Thanks for that link to the ASV19A, which I note was also used by the Gannet. It is now clear that the TBM-3E (APS-4/ASH) was the US Navy model equivalent of the Avenger AS4, while the Avenger AS5 was a British "domestic" version, with no USN equivalent.

The TBM-3S2 and TBW-3W2 were ASW hunter/killer conversions of TBM-3E airframes in the early fifties.

[Graham Boak]

Thanks Alex. I notice that both 3E and 3E2 became either AS Mk.4s or AS Mk.5, so whatever the difference was, it had no effect on the choice for the FAA role. This confirms the existence of the designation but still leaves us in the dark as to what the USN meant by it.

The ASV 19A was designed for the Gannet, the Avengers just being used as trainers. Presumably it was removed from those airframes later passed on.

[twocee]

As I said previously there was no such US Navy model as the TBM-3E2.