eBay Ju 87 to identify

[ianatheling]

At eBay here is a photo of a damaged Ju 87 with one the clearest WNrs I have seen (0870358). But the code is unclear/incomplete. I had initially believed it to be S2+__ so StG 77, but think that it is more likely S7+ of StG 3. (I assume that it cannot be 52+___ of pre war StG 165). Can anyone provide more details on this aircraft?

Ian

[ChrisS]

I think this is StG77 and from I./StG77. First is the bend in the second number... typical 2 not a 7 then second is what I think is the white top of a I./StG77 to left of the chap on the wing. Nothing concrete.

[ianatheling]

Thanks Chris for spotting the possible I./StG 77 emblem, although as you say not concrete. Hopefully someone can match the WNr to a possible unit.
Cheers

Ian

[steve sheridan]

Ian and Chris, i have this a/c listed in my notes as from 2/St.G77 S2+HK.
A/c crashed with combat damage probably during the Western Campaign.
Rgs,
Steve.

[Larry Hickey]

Ian, et al.

This is S2+HK, W.Nr.0358 of 2./StG77, FL and temporarily abandoned, probably near Sedan, during the WC/FC period of May, 1940. I have a number of photos of this a/c in the EoE DB. I'm seeking info on the exact date, location and aircrew, in the event that anyone can help provide that information. This a/c may well be one of our EoE a/c profile subjects.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[ianatheling]

Thanks Steve and Larry for identifying this one. Larry I hope we can find more details on the crash, it certainly looks a good candidate for a profile.

Ian

[obdl3945]

Hi, folks...

I am aware Larry has other photos of this aircraft, but am I right in thinking these three machines are the same?

Larry's 'S2+HK' would appear to be the same machine as in photo 1, viewed from the front, the main similarity being the large sheet of corrugated metal betwen the undercarriage spats.

Photo 2 is a bit of a connundrum, though, as it would appear to show the same aircraft, complete with swastika over lapping the rudder, rudder-applied W.Nr and the unit codes and emblem of 2./St.G.77, but with the propellor having been spirited away, perhaps in exchange for the re-appearance of the gunner's canopy on the rear fuselage? The surroundings of the aircraft in photo 2 are somewhat sparse compared to the other images, but this could simply be due to the photo being taken at a different time of year, or the aircraft having been moved from one location to another. I'd be interested on your thoughts, though.

Regards,

Paul

PS: all images from the same link as Ian has provided, then view the seller's other items for auction... photos 1 & 2 were still there at time of this posting.

[Larry Hickey]

Paul,

You've got two different a/c here.

1) S2+HK, W.Nr.0870358, FL May-June, 1940
2) The same a/c, taken shortly after it came down. The corrugated sheet metal helps confirm the ID.
3) S2+LK, W.Nr.08703??, FL May-June, 1940. I'm still trying to ID the full W.Nr of this a/c.

Still looking for full W.Nr. of #3, as well as crews, locations and dates. I'm pretty sure that at least one of these and probably both were among the six 2./StG77 Stukas shot down or force landed after being damaged during and following attacks on Allied armored columns in the Le Chesne area on 14 May 1940. Two of the six FL and one was forced down behind German lines short of its base. This knocked out half of the Staffel Stukas during this one mission.

According to the Revised EoE Luft Loss DB, these possible candidates down on 14 May included:

2./StG77 Junkers Ju87B-1. Made emergency landing in German lines near Eupen (Belgium) after attacks by Nos. 1 and No. 73 Squadron Hurricanes south of Sedan following attack on enemy armour south-west of Le Chesne 3.45 p.m. Pilot Lt Hans Sinn slightly wounded, BF Gefr Hans Weidner badly wounded, admitted to hospital in Eupen. Aircraft under 10% damaged - repairable. (NOTE: Bock says, FF Lt. Hans Sinn on this aircraft) Lt Sinn & gunner 100% loss & both ‘missing later returned unhurt’ per QMG Returns. Peter Taghon reports: "I spoke with Sinn, Bock is right, Sinn and Weidner were a crew."

2./StG77 Junkers Ju87B-1. Shot down by Nos. 1 and 73 Squadron Hurricanes following attack on enemy armour south-west of Le Chesne 3.45 p.m. and crash-landed at Les Grandes-Armoises, south of Sedan (France). FF Uffz Robert Munk and BF Uffz. Karl Wagner believed unhurt - returned later. Aircraft 100% write-off. Aircraft 100% write-off.

2./StG77 Junkers Ju87B-1. Crash-landed south of Le Chesne damaged in attacks by Nos. 1 and 73 Squadron Hurricanes following attack on enemy armour south-west of Le Chesne (France) 3.45 p.m. FF Uffz Jakob Schneider and BF Uffz. Walter Rottländer both captured wounded –later released. Aircraft 100% write-off. (NOTE: Winfried Bock says, Uffz. Wöllner on aircraft 2 entries above with Oblt. Scherzinger, was captured and released, Uffz. Schneider also released, BF Uffz. Walter Rottländer on this aircraft and was captured and released). Above version from Gillet as adopted by Perry. See remarks two entries above. Peter Taghon comments: "Bock is right."

Who can add to the resolution of this mystery and help ID these two a/c and their crews? I'm also looking for information/photos of a third a/c down this date, which may have been S2+MK, W.Nr.087????, which was also apparently lost during the WC/FC and for which two color photos exist of it taken shortly after it crashed. More than likely S2+HK, S2+LK and S2+MK account for all three of the a/c above. Sorting out the exact crash locations and crew identities is the challenge. Ulf Balke thinks that S2+HK is: "June 1, 1940: I./StG77 Junkers Ju87B-1. Forced-landed damaged by flak over Béthune. Crew unhurt. Aircraft 60% damaged but repairable."

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[obdl3945]

Hi, Larry...

Thanks for clarifying these two machine for me.

Regards,

Paul