4th FG (21 June - 6 July 1944)

[Kocab Zdenek]

Hello,

Does anyone know information concerning of aircraft losses (with its serial Numbers) and pilots (KIA and POW) of the 4th Fighter Group during operation Frantic II (21 June - 6 July 1944)?

Thank you very much.

Cordially Zdenek Kocab

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

Frantic II
4th FG 8 AAF took part in this operation along with the 486th FS of the 352nd FG 8 AAF.
The 486th FS sent 18 a/c and pilots. The 4th FG supplied the rest (52) bringing the total to 70 a/c. Six were reserves , three were to return to the UK if not required.
21st June 1944 - MACR 6800
1Lt. Frank T. Sibbett - KIA 335th FS "WD-X" 43-6784.
1Lt. Ralph K. Hofer put down in Soviet territory near Kiev.
26th June 1944 - some 55 P51's flew to Italy, 2 were left DBR in Russia. Other pilots whse a/c were unserviceable flew to Italy over the next few days.
On the 2nd July 1944 the 4th flew in support of 15th AAF bombers and near Budapest met with large number of EA, six P51's failed to return and two other pilots were WIA. the 4th pilots were Hofer (43-6746 - KIA -MACR 6801) lost this time downed in Yugoslavia, Capt. George I. Stanford jr (44-13402 - POW -MACR 6799), 1Lt. Thomas S. Sharp (42-106650 - KIA - MACR 6798), 2Lt. J. C. Norris (43-6550 - POW - MACR 6801). 486th FS losses were 1Lt. Lester L. Howell (42-106857 MACR 6697/8828) and Maj. Stephen W. Andrew (42-106467 - POW - MACR6698/8527).
A second mission by 8th AAF bombers was flown from Italy before the Unit flew back to the UK on the 5th July 1944.
Of the 67 or so P-51's, 7 from the 4th FG were lost in action and 2 were left in Russia. 3 aborted and returned to their Russian Base 55 arrived in Italy. Six were to remain in Italy. One 486th FS (43-6704) in N. Africa.

Alex

[Kocab Zdenek]

Alex,

thank you very much for this info.

Zdenek

[Boomerang]

Gentleman: you may be interested in the following 8th Air Force report of Frantic II:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/33689521/W...r-Force-Report

See the summary of fighter operations on page 9.

The report refers to one Mustang being destroyed on the ground in Russia. However, the Craven and Cate history refers to fifteen Mustangs being destroyed on the ground:

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/III/AAF-III-9.html, page 314.

Is there an explanation for this conflict between what should be two authoritative sources?

Don W

[Alex Smart]

Hello Don,
Perhaps the answer could be that the 8th AF report refers only to their a/c. While the other you mention refers to the total number, excluding the Ex-RAF early Mustangs used in the defence of Moscow.
Alex

[Boomerang]

Hello Alex:

Thank you for your suggestion.

It does seem likely that the 8th Air Force report would refer to their one Mustang destroyed on the ground, while Craven and Cate's reported fifteen Mustangs include some other aircraft.

It looks like another one of those apparent discrepancies which are hard to definitively sort out now, in another century.

Regards

Don

[Alex Smart]

Hello Don,
This forum has the RussianMustangs well sorted I think.

http://www.mustangsmustangs.us/theha...hp?topic=364.0

Enjoy
Alex

[Boomerang]

Hello Alex:

Terrific link, thank you!

This was an issue that had me scratching my head for some time, so I really appreciate your assistance.

Cheers

Don

[FrankieS]

6800 440621 P-51 43-6784 4 335 Sibbett, Frank T 08100 Siedlce
6798 440702 P-51 42-106650 4 334 Sharp
6801 440702 P-51 43-6746 QP-X 4 334 Hofer, Ralph Kidd 88000 Mostar
6802 440702 P-51 43-6650 4 336 Norris
6799 440702 P-51 44-13402 4 335 Stanford Jr

[Alex Smart]

Hello Don,
Also for interest are the 486th FS losses 2nd July .

Andrew, S. Maj - 42-106467 "PZ-A" = POW (MACR's 6698 & 8527 ).
Howell, L. Lt - 42-106857 "PZ-V", "Texas Knight"(MACR's 6697 & 8528).

"PZ-H" 43-6704 - "Heller Bust", Capt Edwin L. Heller, it was this a"/c that was left in N. Africa on return to the UK.
"PZ-R" 42-106609 - Lt Waldo C. Raub was KIA when he collided with a Bf109(MACR 5948) 20th June.
Extra, an F-5B-1, 42-67338 was shot down on the 26th by a Russian fighter, Lt. Rowe, David K, was injured.
Alex