Hptm. Ortwin Flotow 04.01.1943

[ARADO001]

Hello. Can someone help me to correct the following crew ? On 4.1.43 He 111 H-6, 7758, 5J + DC of Stab II./KG 4 was lost during a sortie in the area of Welikije-Luki, crew missing. My sources are the KG 4 book from Karl Gundelach, the DRK, VDK and internet.

FF Ofw. Kampel, Karl, MIA > DRK: Kampfl, 28.02.12
BO Hptm. Flotow, Ortwin, MIA > not found in the career summaries, neither in DRK and KG 4 book. Nothing found of this officer on internet.
BF Uffz. Nöpping, Otto, MIA > DRK: Höpting, 19.09.19
BM Uffz. Flatow, Willi, MIA > DRK: 01.02.21
BM Uffz. Schneider, Gerhard, MIA > DRK: 10.04.18.
There are two Uffz. Otto Höpting in the VDK dated 01.12.1942, born 16.09.19 and 19.09.19, both missing in the same area, probably the same person.

Thanks in advance,
Patrick

[Matti Salonen]

I have:
1943-01-04, Stab II/KG 4, He 111 H-6, 7723, 5J+DC, Raum Welikije Luki
Flugzeugführer Ofw Kampfl, Karl, vermißt
Beobachter Uffz Höpting, Otto, vermißt
Bordfunker Uffz Flatow, Willi, vermißt
Bordschütze Uffz Schneider, Gerhard, vermißt
Bordschütze Hptm Flotow, Ortwin, vermißt
Unbekannt. Bruch 100 %.
Höpting's DOB varies in different sources. The NVM and EM list give 16th but DRK Vermisstenbildliste says 19th. Hptm Flotow was Batteriechef (Flak).

Matti

[Stig Jarlevik]

Patrick

Can you be more specific from where you picked up the faulty WNr 7758? (Gundelach has no such details)

Gundelach also follows Matti's loss list, except he does not have Flotow listed.
This is explained by Matti and he seems just to have been unfortunate enough to have been asked or volunteered to
come along on the mission in question.

B Rgds
Stig

[ARADO001]

Thank you very much Matti and Stig for the info.

Stig, I found the Werkenummer on the internet in the sample pages from Michael Balls Lufwtaffe Losses & Claims series on Amazon which I use to fill in some gaps in my database. I have no access to any documents such as NVM, EM lists, GQM files etc. My main source are the published unit histories and the internet. Concerning the crews I use the VDK, DRK and Fold3 and some burial websites combined with a lot of puzzling to find date and place of birth, EM-numbers, original and current burial places. Finding info on the aircraft losses is much more difficult for me without official lists. Luckily for me there exist forums like this and the members are always very helpfull.

Regards,
Patrick

[ARADO001]

I forgot to mention. I have the Werkenummer 7723, a He 111 H-6 from Verb.-Kdo. (S) V as being damaged 25% during a bombing attack on Orsha a/f on 11.10.43. Source: lists on the RUSNET website. This must be incorrect then.
When I compared the books from Walter Waiss on KG 27 with the DRK lists I found a lot of birthday differences which makes it even more complicated for me.
Anyway, best regards,
Patrick

[Rottler]

Hello Patrick,

according to the GQM loss return 14 Oct 1943 item 114 the WNr. of the 25% damaged He 111 H-6 of Verb.Kdo.(S)V was 7728, not 7723.

Regards
Leo

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Patrick

Odd that Michael Balss has this faulty WNr
He is usually very reliable, at least as far as I know.

But no one is as reliable as our own Matti Salonen!! The information is his and not mine. I am just as greatful
as you are....

Leo
Thanks for the additional details re WNr 7728
Cheers
Stig

[ARADO001]

Hello Leo. Thanks for the additional info.

Regards,
Patrick