Loss(es) of Me 262 B-1a/U1 in March 1945

[Revi16]

Originally Posted by Karoband

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=718

110306 as "Ole' Fruit Cake". Note that the long barrels of the MG 151/20 cannon were added after it was captured by the British.

Are you saying the aircraft had 20mm cannons with the barrels removed when captured and the British just re-installed the barrels or that the 30mm cannons were removed and 20mm cannons installed?

Originally Posted by Karoband

Hi Richard,

I found this in reference to the proposed standard Me 262 B-2a Night Fighter in Smith & Creek, Me 262 Volume Three, (2000), p. 499:

"... A more practical proposal was to reduce the forward-firing MK 108s to two (with 160 rounds) and mount an upward firing MK 108 on either side of the radar operator in a Schräge Musik installation."

Jim

Originally Posted by EduardosNormalos

Hi all,

Yes, the 110307 was also a two-seater. This a/c was the third one converted by B&V. All the three B&V conversions had the 2x MG151/20 "Schräge Musik" -installation.

I will amend my initial posting again.

BR, Juha

I'll ask again from Post #11, "Are there any photos showing an Me 262 with Schräge Musik", either MK 108 or MG151/20?

[Karoband]

Hi Revi,

Both Jurleit (p. 172) and O'Connell (p. 70) say it was armed with two MG 151/20s. From the photos of '306' in German markings the extended gun barrels of MG 151s (as seen in photos of He 162s) are not present. I can only conclude that the 30 mm MK 108s were removed and the long barrels added after the British arrived.

To date I have never seen a photo of a Me 262 with the Schrage Musik installation.

Best regards,

Jim

[Dan O'Connell]

I havn't either Jim.

[strahljaeger]

Hi

So far, I am not aware of any evidence of a construction of this type in the Me 262. Drawings, sample construction, airplane photos, test reports, ... nothing points to this weapon in a Me 262..- so far -.

The fuselage of the Me 262 has a maximum cross-section of 1.68 m in height (area in the middle of the pilots cab). There were fueltanks in front of the pilot. There were fueltanks behind and below the observer / radio operator.
The installation of a MG 151/20 in front of the Spant 7190 should not be possible without further changes to the built-in components in the night fighter. Removing the rear fueltanks of the night fighter has a negative effect on flight time. Converting the fueltanks to the rear would change the center of gravity and negative for the frame stability.
If the MG 151/20 (176 cm) were installed after the Spant 7190, 30% or more of this weapon would be located outside the hull.


Regards
Matthias

[EduardosNormalos]

Hi all,

Here's a small "Ident-collage" made out of the five Me262B-1a/U1s as found after the war. Pardon my interpretation of the "Red 11" - sharp-eyed viewers noticed the photo actually shows one of the Me262B-1a -airframes destroyed under a collapsed hangar at B&V Wenzendorf, while under conversion work. Just my guessing how the real "Red 11" might have looked like at Lubeck-Blankensee.

BR, Juha

[Revi16]

Nice collage.

I still don't see the point as to why the Germans, British or whomever would go to the trouble of swapping out 30mm cannons to install 20mm cannons after surrender.

[Karoband]

Originally Posted by Revi16

Nice collage.

I still don't see the point as to why the Germans, British or whomever would go to the trouble of swapping out 30mm cannons to install 20mm cannons after surrender.

Neither do I, Revi. But the photographic evidence shows that these long "barrels" were not there at the surrender:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/albumphp?.albumid=73&pictureid=721

This is "306" beside "165" in the original line-up. It is not "305" which was in a different line-up at the surrender:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=722

Juha, I have never seen the photo at Wenzendorf. Thank you. I note that three out of the four photographed Me 262 B-1a/U1s have dark, day fighter upper wing camo.

Jim

[Matolion]

In my opinion, the MG 151/20 was dismantled (or its barrel) when handed over. The British or rather captured German mechanics later installed it. Replacement of MK 108 with MG 151/20 was not technically possible at the airport, they would have to do it in the factory. These weapons were not compatible (mounting, wiring, etc.)