Savoia Marchetti SM84 - 257a Squadriglia (1943)

[Henofred]

Hello/Bonjour,

I would have liked to have some information about this Italian unit (257a Squadriglia?), fitted with Savoia Marchetti SM84, in particular where it was stationed in the summer of 1943. This picture was taken by a French pilot in transit to Lebanon (July 1943) while on an RAF airbase - I believe the picture was taken in Libya. Would planes of this type have been captured intact by the British?

Best regards,
Frederic

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Frederic

I very interesting photo and also a puzzling one.

If Chris Dunning got his unit histories correctly together, 257a Sqd belonged all its life to 108 Gruppo, and looking at that parent unit it was only equipped with the SM.84 during late 1940 to ca autumn 1942 when it again received the SM.79.

In ca mid 1943 and before the armistice it was based at
Milis, Sardinia (from 22 May)
Lecce (June)
Pisa (30 July)
Brindisi (13 Aug)
Pisa (27 Aug)

As you can see, something does not add up with regard to the photo.
In 1943 the unit had no SM.84 and I cannot recall any mass escape by that type to the Allies in North Africa.

Cheers
Stig

[Henofred]

Hello Stig,

Thank you for these first details, very interesting. If it is indeed this Italian unit, this picture is therefore an enigma because this French pilot - previously in North Africa - never went to the mentioned based places.

The RAF airbase seems to be Castel Benito according to one of the pilot’s documents. And this line-up of planes is a bit amazing, that's why I was thinking of captured planes.

Best regards,
Frederic

[Stig Jarlevik]

Well Frederic

The code of one of the aircraft shown in the photo clearly indicates 257 Sqd.
I only have one book dedicated to the SM.84 (Ali d'Italia No 21) and it gives no indication of any mass escape anywhere. I don't think the aircraft ever served with a unit based in Africa, but I have not checked every unit supposed to have used it.

The SM.84 was a failure and disliked. It was supposed to replace the SM.79 but ended up being replaced by its predecessor instead.

All my magazine articles are equally silent about anything like this.
Hopefully one of our Italian members will have something to say about this photo as well

Cheers
Stig

[Gianandrea Bussi]

36° Stormo Aerosiluranti, after converting from S.79 to S.84, went in september 1941 from his home base at Bologna - Borgo Panigale to Decimomannu in Sardinia, being based there till september 1942 when it flew to Pisa, converting again to S.79.


All the aircraft in the picture wear a white fuselage band, and not a white band with superimposed camouflage as often seen in aircraft of this unit: it's possible that they had been photographed in the first period of the employ.
The base should be Decimomannu, that had very basic fixed installations and whose terrain was made also sometimes of grassless earth as visible in the picture (see some of the photos published in the very complete book "Sparvieri e Predoni - l'aeroporto di Decimomannu nella Seconda Guerra Mondiale" by Stefano Demontis and Alessandro Ragatzu).
Please note that each aircraft had a torpedo under its belly.
I don' think at all that the photo had been taken in Libya.


Cheers


Gianandrea

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Gianandrea

That sounds very reasonable, since there are too many aircraft at the same time in the photo and the date stated is very, very awkward....

Depending on who the French pilot was, for instance if he had belonged to the Vichy-side not impossible he had visited Deci much earlier!
Perhaps he had even been given the photo?

Cheers
Stig

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

I frankly do not know if this has any relevance but

GC III/6 transferred from Algeria to Syria 1941 via Italy:


https://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_...s/image004.jpg

Source:
https://www.bibert.fr/
(excellent site)

Cheers,
Kari

[Stig Jarlevik]

Yes Kari, I am aware of that flight.

However I am myself unable to pinpoint which place the SM.84s were photographed.

If Gianandrea is correct, their flight was nowhere near Decimomannu (on Sardinia) and if the place in the photo thus might be those on the map, ie Catania and Brindisi, is completely beyond me.

Cheers
Stig

[Henofred]

Hello Kari and Stig,

Thank you for all this information and what is interesting it is that this French pilot was a time into the Groupement de Chasse 26 of which the Groupe de Chasse III/6 was part of. The picture was perhaps taken at that time as the course of this airman is difficult to follow, I have only bits and pieces. I am going to look for on this side.

Best regards,
Frederic