Helmut Lipfert capture 1945

[Alfred.MONZAT]

Originally Posted by researcher111

Hartmann was released only thanks his cooperation with the Soviets .

I did not deny that Hartmann cooperated or not but still he was not released earlier than most other POW.

[researcher111]

Hartmann was released late due numerous reasons one which
he had an advisory role on early stages of Korean conflict
while meeting his old WWII counterparts Kojedub and Pokrishkin .

In the early stage of his captivity and due to what the Germans
caused in Russia he along with other gone through very hard times
however after 1951 his captivity conditions were substantially
improved, while little known about it, even Konrad Adenauer
plegded for his release through Walter Ulbricht with a substantial
financial compensation package which landed on Chrustchev's table.

When I met him in 1990 he even claimed that thanks to his
numerous visits at Monino early 50's where elite Soviets were
trained air combat doctrine the Soviets achieved air superiority
in Korea . While very hard to verify such claims ,I fully believe that
unlike other Luftwaffe pilots he had no choice but do this in order
to save his skin .

Alex K

[VtwinVince]

Postwar, Graf was made a 'Suendenbock' by the West German media for alleged transgressions whilst a POW. This was clearly a political agenda, and should be clarified.

[researcher111]

Vtwin , I fully agree with you. Interesting that few SS Generals which
cooperated with the Russians were released by the order of Stalin and
Berya earlier then regular Luftwaffe pilots.

[ZhekaB]

Researcher, do you have any proofs, that soviet pilots (any of them) had meeting with E. Hartman in 1950's?
What exactly SS_GeneralS_ were released in USSR earlier than 1950s?

[VtwinVince]

The politics within Luftwaffe veterans ranks postwar were pretty brutal. Take the case of Graf von Einsiedel, a confirmed member of the National Komittee Freies Deutschland, who tried to attend a meeting of Kameradschaftsverband JG 3. Needless to say, he was not welcome and was branded a traitor.

[Dan History]

Originally Posted by VtwinVince

The politics within Luftwaffe veterans ranks postwar were pretty brutal. Take the case of Graf von Einsiedel, a confirmed member of the National Komittee Freies Deutschland

Vince,

It is appropriate to point out that Einsiedel spent six years collaborating with Stalin's regime, three of those after the war had ended. Veterans of the air force of Nazi Germany were in a very poor position to cast moral judgments, but it is difficult to fault them in instances such as Einsiedel's. It is eminently possible to justify Einsiedel's behaviour before the fall of Hitler's regime, but not after, when a Stalinist dictatorship replaced the Nazi one in East Germany.

Regards,

Dan

[kaki3152]

Dan, I believe it's more complicated than that. If you read his book "I Joined the Russians" (Yale:1953) you can see that he was trying to figure out an exit from the Russians. Kinda hard to leave Stalin's service.

[researcher111]

edited

[Dan History]

Originally Posted by kaki3152

Dan, I believe it's more complicated than that. If you read his book "I Joined the Russians" (Yale:1953) you can see that he was trying to figure out an exit from the Russians.

Kaki, thank you for your comment. I have not read that book, so will exercise caution in my reply. It is entirely possible that he found it difficult to escape from East Germany. Nevertheless, in later life he went so far as to become a member of the PDS (Party of Democratic Socialism), the successor party to the one that controlled East Germany, in the Bundestag. Not a morally consistent position and one of many events in his life which raise grave questions about his moral character.

If you are interested, there is a recent book about the man by a German academic, entitled Heinrich Graf von Einsiedel. Eine Einzelfallstudie zum Nationalkomitee „Freies Deutschland“. It is available online, see https://opus4.kobv.de/opus4-bamberg/...ex/docId/45434

Merry Christmas!

Dan