Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24th June 2011, 07:59
Thierry K Thierry K is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: France
Posts: 89
Thierry K is on a distinguished road
Spitfire losses 5 March 1943 North Africa

Hi all,
On 5 March 1943, over the southern front line in Tunisia, Gabes-Medenine area, I have only one Spitfire of 601 Sqn lost, pilot baled out, safe, and a second of 601 Sqn too, damaged, pilot wounded.
Were other Spitfires lost on that day in that area ?
Thanks
Thierry
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24th June 2011, 20:43
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,917
Laurent Rizzotti is on a distinguished road
Re: Spitfire losses 5 March 1943 North Africa

This is what is written for this day in "Fighters over Tunisia" (only extracts with Spitfires involved):

"At 0645 four 92 Squadron Spitfires took off to provide an independent roaming top cover to other Spitfires of 1 SAAF Squadron, but they were suddenly attacked out of some clouds by seven Bf 109s of I/JG 77, and a 15 minutes dogfight began, during which Hpt. Bär shot down FO 'Happy' Mac-Mahon, who crashed and was killed.

Eight Spitfires from 601 Squadron flew to Hazbub Main for readiness, and at about 1215 four of these scrambled to patrol over the forward area; a lone Bf 109 was then seen going west very fast, flown by Hpt. Bär of I/JG 77. The confident Bär, sure of his own ability, and at this time by his own admission, possessed of a feeling of complete invulnerability, climbed above the Spitfires and then dived on them out of the sun. They turned towards him and he passed straight by, pulled round, and a few moments later attacked F/Sgt. Tilston, who was forced to bale out.
During 601’s last scramble of the day from Hazbub Main, o
ne aircraft got caught in the slipstream of the others and crashed, the pilot being injured. The other three arrived west of Medenine at 13000 feet, seeing more than 12 Bf 109s and MC 202s 2000 feet higher. They climbed to 19000 feet, and then attacked an MC 202 and a Bf 109, Fl.Lt.Nicholls firing at the Italian fighter and claiming to have slightly damaged it."

This is what is in Tony Wood claim lists for this day:

05.03.43 Hptm. Heinz Bär: 166 Stab I./JG 77 P-40E  Fatnassa based: 07.40 Film C. 2031/I Anerk: Nr. –
05.03.43 Hptm. Heinz Bär: 167 Stab I./JG 77 P-40E  Fatnassa based: 07.45 Film C. 2031/I Anerk: Nr. -

Supplemental/Alternative Claims from Other Sources:
05.03.43 Hptm. Heinz Bär: 166 Stab I./JG 77 Spitfire  Type & Time confliction: 08.00 Reference: JG 77 Lists f. 2426
05.03.43 Hptm. Heinz Bär: 167 Stab I./JG 77 Spitfire  Type & Time confliction: 08.00 Reference: JG 77 Lists f. 2426
05.03.43 Ltn. Ernst Laube: 7 3./JG 77 Spitfire  - 08.00 Reference: JG 77 Lists f. 2426

And this is what I extracted from a Spitfire production list available online:

BR284 VcT 2809 EA M46 FF 11-4-42 39MU 12-4-42 82MU 20-4-42 SS483 9-5-42 Middle East 6-10-42 Damaged by Bf109s and abandoned nr Sfax 5-3-43 SOC 26-3-43
EP794 Vb CBAF M46 12MU 1-8-42 47MU 2-9-42 SS625 30-10-42 Gibraltar 6-11-42 [FA SOC 31-12-42] Taxied into shell hole Hazbub 5-3-43
ER191 Vb CBAF M46 9MU 28-8-42 76MU 10-9-42 SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42 Collided with another aircraft while landing in rain La Senia 5-3-43
ER212 Vb CBAF M46 46MU 29-8-42 222MU 1-10-42 Ocean Courage 7-11-42 Middle East 1-1-43 601S Control lost on take-off crashlanded Hazbub -Main 5-3-43 SOC 26-3-43
ER709 Vb CBAF M46 12MU 20-10-42 82MU 27-10-42 Hamble V 19-11-42 Gibraltar 8-12-42 NWAfrica 28-2-43 243S Overturned on landing Souk-el-Khemis C3 5-3-43

This is the various data I have, to conciliate all of them will be another matter...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24th June 2011, 22:56
Thierry K Thierry K is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: France
Posts: 89
Thierry K is on a distinguished road
Re: Spitfire losses 5 March 1943 North Africa

bonsoir Laurent
According to John Tilston's account he took of shortly after midday behind his leader F/O Percy Sewell (rcaf). As they reached 20.000 ft he was hit in the right wing and engine and saw a Me 109 on his right side having his leader in his sights. ( leader landed safely but with some bullet wounds)
Tilston bailed out and had been on the ground in friendly lines.
Thank you very much for quick and exhaustive answer. Merci beaucoup Thierry
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blenheims in North Africa - squadrons? Mikkel Plannthin Allied and Soviet Air Forces 7 9th November 2007 22:29
july 1943, Lancasters over north italy micky Allied and Soviet Air Forces 10 21st January 2007 15:56
SAAF and RAF aircraft losses in East Africa Campaign 1940-41 Mitch Williamson Allied and Soviet Air Forces 16 1st April 2005 21:25
Losses of III/JG2 January 1943 to October 1943 . infos needs heinz Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 12th February 2005 18:56
Losses of GRB No. 1 "Lorraine" in North Africa klemen Allied and Soviet Air Forces 12 21st January 2005 08:53


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net