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  #1  
Old 13th October 2005, 14:30
Nikita Egorov Nikita Egorov is offline
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Help with identifying German pilot taken prisoner on July 13, 1943

Hi all!

Scanning through Pavel Burchard's list of losses during the Kursk battle I have found no matches in JG3 and JG52 losses. The story goes as follows: On July 13, 1943 in the evening Soviet fighters shot down wingman of a pair of Me-109s, which tried to engage formation of Sturmovicks North of Volchansk (area of Kharkov). Me-109 belly landed behind Soviet lines. Pilot with rank of oberleutenant was captured. Various witness from Soviet side confirm that German pilot was captured. On the contrary no available sources on JG3 or JG52 indicate such loss on July 13. Could it be the mistake in dates from one side or does it show that German loss records are incomplete to the extent that total loss could not be reflected in them?
Maybe somebody could shed some light on who it might be?

Best regards,
Nikita
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Old 13th October 2005, 15:04
Pawel Burchard Pawel Burchard is offline
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Re: Help with identifying German pilot taken prisoner on July 13, 1943

The only incident that I know about and would approx. fit would be the loss of Major Ewald on 14-jul-1943.

regards,
Pawel
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Old 13th October 2005, 15:09
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: Help with identifying German pilot taken prisoner on July 13, 1943

In spite of the fact that the source claims it was a 109, the only Oblt. fighter guys that I can find were in 190s:

Fw190A-5, 410038, Walter, Oblt. Albert, 35, St.St., JG 51, schwarze, 9-+-, , , 13-Jul-43, MIA after Luftkampf with Soviet fighters., DK? Reported as WNr. 0038., Ostfront, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Ring, JG 51 loss list, p.50, , Pl.Qu. 54416, SE of Uljanowo, 100%, F

Fw190A-5, 2558, Messerschmidt, Oblt. Alfred, 8~, StabI., JG 51, schwarze, , , , 13-Jul-43, MIA after Luftkampf., , Ostfront, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Ring, JG 51 loss list, p.50, , Pl.Qu. 63228, 100%, F
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Old 13th October 2005, 15:10
Nikita Egorov Nikita Egorov is offline
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Re: Help with identifying German pilot taken prisoner on July 13, 1943

Yes, I know about Ewald, but this is definitely not the same case. Ewald was lost in the vicinity of Belgorod and he could hardly fly as wingman...
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Old 13th October 2005, 15:15
Nikita Egorov Nikita Egorov is offline
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Re: Help with identifying German pilot taken prisoner on July 13, 1943

Well, Jim this is not the case either, because all these guys were lost in the Northern sector of the Kursk silent. Regarding my occasion, that happened near Kharkov, surely against pilots of JG52 or JG3...

[quote=Jim P.]In spite of the fact that the source claims it was a 109, the only Oblt. fighter guys that I can find were in 190s:
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Old 13th October 2005, 15:17
Pawel Burchard Pawel Burchard is offline
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Re: Help with identifying German pilot taken prisoner on July 13, 1943

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Egorov
Yes, I know about Ewald, but this is definitely not the same case. Ewald was lost in the vicinity of Belgorod and he could hardly fly as wingman...
But the location of the Ewald's incident is obviuosly incorrect, there is no such Planquadrat as 61922, so it must have been a typo. Inserting 8 or 6 instead of 9 gives you the location around Voltschansk, for example 61622 gives you approx. area Maslova Pristan - Olschanetz (NW Voltschansk).

Regards,
Pawel
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Old 13th October 2005, 15:27
Nikita Egorov Nikita Egorov is offline
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Re: Help with identifying German pilot taken prisoner on July 13, 1943

Dear Pawel,

Maybe you are right in terms of location, but what should we do with date and rank of oberleutenant? BTW, what was the official version of Ewald's loss? Was it Flak or fighters? How many pilots accompanied him in his last flight and witness? I also need the approximate time of his loss, to be sure that it was Ewald in this case.

Regards
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Old 13th October 2005, 15:39
Pawel Burchard Pawel Burchard is offline
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Re: Help with identifying German pilot taken prisoner on July 13, 1943

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Egorov
BTW, what was the official version of Ewald's loss?
Nikita, following is excerpt from Prien/Stemmer:

[...] am 14. Juli, konnte die Gruppe noch einmal sechs Abschüsse
verbuchen, verlor jedoch ihren Kommandeur, nachdem Maj. Ewald durch das Feuer leichter russischer Flak brennend abgeschossen wurde und mit dem Fallschirm aussteigen musste; er kam kurz runter den russischen
Linien auf und wurde gleich darauf leicht verwundet gefangengenommen
.
Aufzeichnungen Karl-Heinz Langer, namentliche Verlustmeldung WASt., danach wurde die Gefangennahme Ewalds bereits kurze
Zeit später durch die Vernehmung russischer Überläufer und Gefangener bestätigt.


Unfortunately a look in III./J.G. 3 claims on 14-jul-43 does not give any clues as for possible time of incident.

Regards,
Pawel

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Old 13th October 2005, 15:44
Nikita Egorov Nikita Egorov is offline
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Re: Help with identifying German pilot taken prisoner on July 13, 1943

Pawel, thank you very much! I see that this is unlikely to be Ewald's case. Flak is not mentioned in Soviet sources...
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  #10  
Old 13th October 2005, 15:48
Andy Fletcher's Avatar
Andy Fletcher Andy Fletcher is offline
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Re: Help with identifying German pilot taken prisoner on July 13, 1943

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim P.
Fw190A-5, 410038, Walter, Oblt. Albert, 35, St.St., JG 51, schwarze, 9-+-, , , 13-Jul-43, MIA after Luftkampf with Soviet fighters., DK? Reported as WNr. 0038., Ostfront, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Ring, JG 51 loss list, p.50, , Pl.Qu. 54416, SE of Uljanowo, 100%, F
Hi Jim,

I note you have Olt Albert Walter listed as DK?, he was awarded the DKiG 31Aug43.

Regards

Andy Fletcher
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