Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 7th January 2010, 22:46
Parabellum Parabellum is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 232
Parabellum is on a distinguished road
Re: Which stories behind these photos?

Hello,

Thank you all for searching and finding all these precisions.
Most interesting.
Regardind the W serial, the photo is reported as beeing that of a spitfire shot down in Belgium.
http://cgi.ebay.de/007-2x-O-Foto-abg...item1e59e0192f
As to the serial itself, if not W3108, it looks possibly like W3109 (first serial for Mk V series, if not wrong)... don't you think?

@ Larry
May be not the right place for Luftwaffe but here are the links. But if it may be of help...
http://cgi.ebay.de/045-Orig-Foto-Flu...item1e59dc58e8
http://cgi.ebay.de/043-Orig-Foto-Flu...item1e59dc58ce
http://cgi.ebay.de/044-Orig-Foto-Flu...item20aed19765

Regards,
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 7th January 2010, 23:34
Martin Gleeson Martin Gleeson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Limerick, Ireland.
Posts: 678
Martin Gleeson is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Which stories behind these photos?

Hallo all,

Yes it does look like W3108, or even N3108. However those markings are the wrong size and in the wrong position for the Air Ministry serial number.

Is it possible they are an example of the many stencils applied to Spitfires ? Marking specialists required here.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 8th January 2010, 00:20
Larry Larry is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Middlesex, England
Posts: 1,013
Larry is on a distinguished road
Re: Which stories behind these photos?

No wonder I failed to spot the 'serial number as I was not expecting to see it under the tailplane, as Martin has pointed out! Having said that though, there are plenty of examples of irregular markings in the RAF and even painting over the serial number as in Spitfire AZ-K was not 'by the book'. Another explanation is that the 'W3109' is a makers marking, put on the aircraft at the factory before it was painted according to Air Ministry requirements. Perhaps all Spitfires had their serial painted on or within them in this way! The fire from the crash could have burnt away the top camo paint.

W3109 was a Mk Vb with 54 Sqn and was shot down on 17.09.41 on Circus 95 to Marzingarbe (on French Belgium border). The pilot Sgt RA Overson was KIA and buried at Dunkirk.

54 Sqn used the codes KL at this time but these do not show in the photo. However as a Vb this aircraft would have had cannons and it looks like one cannon may be seen in the wing leading edge (on the right hand side of the second photo).

I'm going to stick my neck out and say it is W3109
__________________
Larry Hayward
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 8th January 2010, 01:42
Larry Larry is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Middlesex, England
Posts: 1,013
Larry is on a distinguished road
Re: Which stories behind these photos?

Lastly regarding the Whitley I think it is Z6795 of 10 OTU which was on an AS Patrol over the sea on 21.09.1942 when it ran out of fuel. It was recovered by the Germans and all the crew made POW.

Your photos from eBay fit the photo I have attached from 'The Whitley File' by Air Britain in that the aircraft is all over black and has fishing net over the front turret. Z6795 carried the code letters JL - W and although these cannot be clearly seen, their worn out appearance is the same in each photo.

So it would seem that the Whitley came down near Guernsey and once recovered was taken to another port by barge such as Brest, and no doubt the POWs went via France to captivity.
__________________
Larry Hayward

Last edited by Larry; 31st October 2013 at 11:19.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 8th January 2010, 01:45
Parabellum Parabellum is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 232
Parabellum is on a distinguished road
Re: Which stories behind these photos?

That's what I was trying to let you understand Larry! :-)
Hope my ebay findings have been of interest...including the Bf109-F photos?

Regards,
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 8th January 2010, 13:20
VoyTech VoyTech is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 198
VoyTech is on a distinguished road
Re: Which stories behind these photos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry View Post
Voytech - your a better man than me for knowing AZ-K was a Mk V. What identifying points did you spot in the photos?
The windscreen is of the later design with integral bullet-proof panel. No Mk II or Mk I ever had this. Very few (if any) CBAF-built Mk Vs had this before the change to "C" type roundels in mid-1942. Anyway, the fuselage roundel position is as applied by Supermarines and Westlands, not CBAF.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 9th January 2010, 18:33
Parabellum Parabellum is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 232
Parabellum is on a distinguished road
Re: Which stories behind these photos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoyTech View Post
The windscreen is of the later design with integral bullet-proof panel. No Mk II or Mk I ever had this. Very few (if any) CBAF-built Mk Vs had this before the change to "C" type roundels in mid-1942. Anyway, the fuselage roundel position is as applied by Supermarines and Westlands, not CBAF.
Hi VoyTech,

Could it be the same aircraft? Assuming it is, we do have a better view on the windsreen!
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=220186202808

Regards,
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 9th January 2010, 19:29
Icare9 Icare9 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 292
Icare9 is on a distinguished road
Re: Which stories behind these photos?

.... more fishing net - looks a bit far from the sea this time!!!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10th January 2010, 01:03
Parabellum Parabellum is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 232
Parabellum is on a distinguished road
Re: Which stories behind these photos?

New stories behind these photos?
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Abgestuerzte...item58856f580c
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Abgestuerzte...item58856f5193
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10th January 2010, 01:29
Larry Larry is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Middlesex, England
Posts: 1,013
Larry is on a distinguished road
Re: Which stories behind these photos?

The first of the new photos you have attached is a Spitfire Mk VC of 92 Sqn in the Western Desert. The Sqn had still used QJ code letters since 1940. The Sqn arrived in the Middle East in April 1942 but only got the Mk VC in August 1942 so the photo dates from then onwards.

The second photo looks like a VC aircraft from the same Sqn though its hard to read the codes. The QJ appears to be in the same place as before with the Q over the door.

Looking at the terrain I would say that this was taken in the deserts of Egypt or Libya in 1942 before the Axis retreated to Tunisia
__________________
Larry Hayward
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aviation literature from Russia viktor_kulikov@mail.ru Books and Magazines 0 29th May 2009 18:58
Some interesting USAAF & RAF photos Roger Gaemperle Allied and Soviet Air Forces 1 4th March 2009 19:51
Two photos British Bomber Crashes needing IDs and stories Larry Hickey Allied and Soviet Air Forces 8 24th April 2008 09:00
Looking for photos of ARR Hurricanes Mirek Wawrzynski Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 12th May 2005 09:56


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net