Luftwaffe Fighter Claims - 27 July 1940

[Peter Cook]

I am trying to establish the validity of two claims for 27 July 1940. The first is by Hptm Erich Gerlitz of 7/JG27 for a Hurricane shot down at 16.35 at an unknown location. This is listed in Tony Wood's OKL Combat Claims Lists and in Brian Cull's Battle for the Channel.
The second claim is for Oblt Roloff von Aspern of 5/JG54 for a Hurricane shot down 'W London' at 10.20, reproduced in Mathews and Foreman's Luftwaffe Aces, Biographies and Victory Claims.
I can't match either of these with any known actions on this day or any Hurricane losses. The only Hurricane that was lost was flown by F/L Cox of 501 Sq., who was shot down over Dover by Lt Marx of 3/Erpr.Gr.210 at approximately 17.50.

Any thoughts?

[Nick Beale]

If it helps, this is an extract from the daily sitrep at the TSAMO German Docs in Russia site.

[Chris Goss]

Nothing in Jochen Prien's book for Gerlitz or von Aspern. Latter's first victory of the BofB I have as being 30 Aug 40 (7), his claim previous to that was with 1./JG 76 and on 4 Jun 40 (6).

[Stig Jarlevik]

This day was up for a partial review not so long ago.

Then it was the claim listed in BoB the Combat Archive Vol 2 under III./JG 52 Fw Fernsebner - Hurricane - Dover (17.50 - 18.00H)
The out come of that discussion was that no such claim had ever been made!

However that leaves the Vol 2 short of one Luftwaffe claim. As can be seen from Nick's attachment, there were three claims by Luftwaffe that day, two Spitfires and one Hurricane.

It seems the two claims we know of, were one by Oblt G Framm (2./JG 27) which may be the one referred to by Tony Woods, while the second one was by Lt H Marx (3./ErpGr 210)

So who claimed the second Spitfire (the third claim as per the daily report)?

Cheers
Stig

[Peter Cook]

Thanks everyone. Not sure that I can answer the issue of the third claim on the daily report. There was only one Spitfire brought down, and that was by Oblt Framm, while Lt Marx brought down the Hurricane. I guess that the identity of the 2nd Spitfire claimant, and the claim details, remain a mystery.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Peter

I checked the Gerlitz claim, and it seems listing it on the 27th is wrong!
Woods and later Cull (possibly taking it from the former) has read a digit 1 as a digit 7. Knowing how some individual handwrite their digits 1 with a "horrible" hook at the top, that is very understandable.
However Gerlitz claim was on the 21st of July not the 27th. The time is the same 16.35H

That then leaves the claim of von Aspern as a valid contender.
As always, Johannes can have made a mistake, none is infallible, but he knows what he is talking (writing) about!

Checking Prien's books is a tough going, since one has to look up every unit instead of the day in question. My books are a bit inaccessible right now, but if no suggestions come forward, I will go through them later on.

Cheers
Stig

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

So who claimed the second Spitfire (the third claim as per the daily report)?

Cheers
Stig

From an earlier page of the same sitrep: one Spitfire was claimed off Portsmouth in an action between 25 Spitfires and 18 Bf 109.

My first attachment said that the second was claimed off Falmouth but a quick perusal of the rest of the sitrep doesn't say who was operating over Cornwall (apart from night attacks on St. Merryn and Land's End) and no claim is mentioned. Was Falmouth, a 400 km round trip from airfields in Brittany, within the Bf 109's practical radius of action? If not, we'd be looking at a claim by a Bf 110 or a bomber or reconnaissance gunner.

[Peter Cook]

Thanks Stig, I checked the 21st July lisings and the claim is as you say, curiously it is listed by Brian Cull and Tony Wood, so why it was repeated on the 27th I can't say. As for the von Aspern claim, one thing that is curious is that the location is listed as 'W London', but as far as I am aware no Bf 109s were venturing that far inland at this early stage of the Battle of Britain, so perhaps this is also a case of an inaccurate date.

[Peter Cook]

Nick,

The only Spitfire brought down was definitely by Framm. the Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung states the following:

l.Korps VIII): 8 Ju 87 of I./St.G.77 (Airborne 10.20 hours) with fighters from I./J.G.27 with 18 Me 109 (Airborne 10.27 hours) in the area of Cherbourg – Swanage – Portland. At Portland aerial combat with 20 – 25 Spitfires. 1 Spitfire shot down 30 km South of Portland. 1 Ju 87 of I./St.G.77 shot down South of Portland.

As for the 2nd Spitfire claim, my thoughts are that this was probably the result of a date error.

Peter

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Peter Cook

Nick,

As for the 2nd Spitfire claim, my thoughts are that this was probably the result of a date error.

Peter

No quarrel with that, assuming that it happened at all, of course.