Luftbeobachterstaffel 3, Ju88 expert sought

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello

Trying to figure out which Ju88C-6's were with the Luftbeobachterstaffel 3 at Venlo, I came across an old thread about the alleged Ju88 crash near Nederweert (NL) which actually must have been downed near Niederwerth (Germany).

This particular Ju88 C-6 had Werkenummer 750461 but I can't check whether this is a genuine serial for this type nor its Stammkennzeichen… (where is that reference work ? )

Perhaps someone has the answer(s) ? Most appreciated !

Warm greetings from Venlo, the Netherlands, Marcel

[Chris Goss]

On 1 Dec 43, 2./ZG 1 lost a C-6 750418 on such a mission, crashing near Pesch

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello Chris,

Many thanks for your informative answer, the chance that 750461 was a genuine Werkenummer for a Ju88C-6 has increased significantly. The general picture about these interesting units becomes gradually better and better.

Best regards and again thank you ! Marcel

[John Manrho]

There are loads of Wnr in that 750xxx range that are ALL C-6's.....so no doubt that Werknummer is valid and correct and that this is a Ju 88C-6. To the crash location......well.....we have no explanation for the Niederwerth/Holl. on the VLM....

[Rottler]

Hello Marcel,

here are some examples of Ju 88 C-6 losses and damages listed in the Gen.Qu. loss returns :

750345 5./NJG 3 13.12.43 100%
750371 4./NJG 3 13.12.43 30%
750377 I./ZG 1 1.12.43 100%
750379 II./NJG 2 10.12.43 40%
750400 II./NJG 2 26.11.43 20%
750401 6./NJG 2 16.12.43 100%
750413 I./ZG 1 1.12.43 100%
750435 4./NJG 3 13.12.43 100%
750437 I./ZG 1 12.12.43 100%
750455 I./NJG 2 26.11.43 100%
750460 5./NJG 2 20.12.43 100%
750462 II./NJG 2 3.12.43 100%
750471 I./NJG 3 16.12.43 50%
750591 7./ZG 1 21.12.43 35%
750592 I./ZG 1 1.12.43 100%
750630 I./ZG 1 12.12.43 100%
750701 I./NJG 2 16.12.43 100%
750820 I./ZG 1 12.12.43 100%
750906 I./NJG 3 2.12.43 30%
750928 I./NJG 2 4.12.43 100%
750929 I./NJG 2 13.12.43 100%
750932 I./NJG 2 16.12.43 45%
750957 I./ZG 1 1.12.43 100%

Regards
Leo

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Dear John, dear Leo,

Thank you both for the affirmative information about this Ju88 (Wnr.750461).
I have made databases with Werkenummer from Bf110, Do215, Me163, He219 and some other types but not the Ju88 so far, so I am quite a novice.

Leo's list shows another interesting detail: that 750460 and 750462 were on the inventory of the II./NJG 2, a unit of which is known to have delivered other aircraft to Luftbeobachterstaffel 3 too. There might have been a link as well between 750461 and II./NJG 2 as well.

Again many thanks for your valuable additions! Have a good weekend,

Marcel

[edNorth]

Yes, Ju 88 C-6 750461 is in genuine W.Nr. range, and apprently did survive this forced landing, later going to I/NJG 1 (or IV possibly)

Note, add space between Ju and 88 and C-6, per "RLM standard".
https://wikivisually.com/wiki/RLM_ai...gnation_system

[John Manrho]

Marcel,

Still am interested why you believe this a/c did not crash near Nederweert. The indication on the VLM is clear with Holl. and if this a/c made a bellylanding near Niederwerth in Germany this wouold have been clearly explained on the VLM i.m.h.o. Furthermore, Luft.Beob.St 3 was stationed at Venlo which makes Nederweert more logical.....

J.

[edNorth]

Originally Posted by John Manrho

There are loads of Wnr in that 750xxx range that are ALL C-6's.....so no doubt that Werknummer is valid and correct and that this is a Ju 88C-6. To the crash location......well.....we have no explanation for the Niederwerth/Holl. on the VLM....

Well, many in 750xxx and 751xxx were Ju 88 R-2 but I guess thats just for us others to know.

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello John,

I can assure you that I haven't made my mind up yet about the correct crash location of Niemann's Ju88:
1. I fully agree that the NVM info is a strong (and likely conclusive) source: 'Niederwerth' in combination with '/Holl.' is phonetically pointing to Nederweert/Holland.
2. Niemann's date/place of death is given as 1th March 1943 at Dormagen near Cologne, several days after his crash. Niemann could have been moved to a Luftwaffe hospital at Dormagen (there was actually a Reserve Luftwaffe Lazarett there), but when he was so badly wounded, then it would have been easier/faster to bring him to 'nearby' dutch hospitals.


I highly respect your expertise on Luftwaffe losses but I hope that you agree that the statement that a loss of a Venlo based unit is likely to be in the wider region around Venlo is not a convincing argument (:-). The Luftbeobachterstaffeln had to 'shadow' British and American bombers wherever they went, so a loss could occur far from the main operating airfield of a Luftbeob.Staffel. Even the I./NJG 1 lost nightfighters as far as Celle (H.D.Frank), Magdeburg (M.Meurer), Mulbjerg/Denmark (Guth) etc.

Do we have Dutch SGLO members in the area of Nederweert we could ask for help?

Warm greetings from Venlo, Marcel