Bf 109 pilot KIA near Schipol - circa Sept/Oct 1941 (quote on "Boldness be my friend" by Richard B. Pape)

[Adriano Baumgartner]

I am finishing Richard B. Pape’s “Boldness be my friend”. It is a lovely written book (the author was a journalist before the war); however it seems (from other Forums) that it was not 100% accurate.
https://www.amazon.com.br/Boldness-B.../dp/0755316266
(My edition is the old one)
Pape’s describe an accident that occurred nearby Amsterdam-Schipol, probably between September and October 1941, when he was under the care of the Dutch Underground Resistance and being moved, on page 70 of his memories.
I do quote:
“About 7 miles from Schipol aerodrome, three Messerschmitt fighters were doing low-flying aerobatics. The centre one, showing yellow wing-tips, streaked down on us in the same kind of crazy mock attack that so many British fighter boys gloried in performing despite all Air Ministry instructions to the contrary. The German pilot skimmed across our path with a frightening roar, and then he heaved the joy-stick back too sharply. The nose of the aircraft pulled up almost in the vertical, climbed a short distance and stalled, lost all speed, and nosed straight into the ground. There was an explosion, and a sheet of crimson flame.”
Is there such a LW record that corroborate Pape’s statement? Seems to be some kind of G-lock. It looks like that the pilot was either a Staffelführer or Staffelkapitän.
Adriano

[Nick Beale]

Have you tried the Netherlands loss register: https://www.verliesregister.studiegroepluchtoorlog.nl ?

[Chris Goss]

...and why do you think it was a Staffelführer or Staffelkapitän?

[Leendert]

Only Bf-109 crash that fits location wise and in presumed period is at Duivendrecht (SE Amsterdam) on 17 Oct 1941.
However, pilot Fhr. Schreck safe/wounded...

Writing as a Dutch national: it really is Schiphol, not Schipol....

See https://www.verliesregister.studiegr...lts?sglo=T1308

Regards,
Leendert

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Nick and Leendert, thank you very much for the link and inputs.

Thanks to Nick pointing to this new SGLO site (I remembered a huge PDF, some 10 years ago with all the losses on Holland on it. I may still have it somewhere amongst other Hard Drives); I found two other possible matches:

18 Sept 1941 > Lt. H. Rose
27 Sept 1941 : Uffz Fritz Geissler

Sgt R. E. Pape was shot down on the 7th September 1941. He was moving by car to Leyden, which is very close to where Fritz Geissler crashed and was killed (that fits with his description more than the crash of Lt. Rose). Sadly, Pape does not inform the date he was first captured in Holland, which would have given us a good clue.

And Leendert, you are totally right. PAPE wrote correctly on pg.70: Schiphol. That was a typo of mine, for which I apologize.

Adriano

[Chris Goss]

Rose was shot down in combat so that rules him out while Geissler crashed on take-off, no talk of a flying accident as described by Pape

[Leendert]

See more about an exact date of Sgt Pape's capture to make a match with a possible Bf 109 crash in western Holland here: https://www.verliesregister.studiegr...?enummer=E0014

Leendert

[Chris Goss]

Soir would appear he had been captured by the time of Geissler’s crash which rules him out.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

I have read on several other Forums and sites about the book "Boldness be my friend" that the book is not 100% historically correct. The author being a former journalist and have suffered quite a lot of abuse by the Gestapo, may have had some kind of "memory problems" (to not say other things). If he was captured on the 25th as Leendert pointed out (date not informed on his book) and the descriptions of the Bf 109 accident ocurred the day before (my understanding) or the same day, there is NO match for what Pape described onto his book. We do not know if this was invented or if he actually saw such a LW plane crashing; but messed up the dates and facts.

Several post-war "War Diaries" do have those kind of Historical problems...maybe "bad memories" or the trying to embelish the stories...do not know why.

Thank you Leendert and Chris for positively showing that this story seems to be a fake one. Records shows no match for what was written down....this is a pity, since the book is very well written and lovely to read.

Well done chaps!

A.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

I remember a former PRU Mosquito Navigator who informed that he had been chased away by at least some six Me 262 and shot down by one of those...only to be informed later that actually he was shot down by a Bf 109 from JG 300...and that much less airplanes were actually dispatched to intercept his Mossie.....Bad memory or trying to embellish his story? Who knows...we can not blame them, the veterans....but History is based on documents, and registered (documented) facts. This is why it is so thrilling and fascinating.