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  #1  
Old 8th May 2018, 10:41
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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JG 53' "abschusse": 11/05/43

Hello all

11/05/43:reported fighting ACCORDING to different sources

source Tony Wood (microfilms)

Hptm.Gotz =1 P-38,12h24 W.Marsal
Fw.Nairz= 1 Mitchell,12h25 N.W.Marsal
Oblt.Schiess= 1 Mitchell,12h25 S.W.Marsal
Fw.Kuehl (Kuhl?)= 1 P-38 12h50 S.W.Marsala

source J.Prien (JG 53 History)

Hptm.Gotz = 1 Spit
Fw.Kuel = 1 P-38
Oblt.Roehring = 1 P-38
Uffz.Bahsen = 1 Spit
Uff.Harnisch = 1 P-38

source C.Shores and Cie ( a history MEA vol.3)

Hptm.Gotz = 1 B.25,12h24 W.Marsala
Uffz.Bahnsen = 1 B.25,12h25 W.Marsala
Uffz.Manz = 1 P-38,12h25 NE Marsala
Fw.Kuhl = 1 B.26,12h50 W Marsala

source J.L Roba (l'histoire de la JG53)
7 "abschusse" (4 P-38,2 Mitchell,1 Spit) with NO details.

Is there anyone able to explain and decide in THIS "CIRCUS"!!!!....and I am polite!

Best Regards
michel
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Old 8th May 2018, 15:28
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: JG 53' "abschusse": 11/05/43

Hello Michel,

At least one P-38 was from 14th FG, found here...the place does match the claims SW of Marsala

http://raf-112-squadron.org/14thfghonor_roll42_43.html

Mentioned on page 405 of 16544, which is report # 16283
11-May-43
*
.
Chavis, Wayne M., FOD 12 May 44
O-728977
49FS
14FG
12AF
KIA
Entered the Service from, Arkansas, Tablets of the Missing at Sicily-Rome American Cemetery, Nettuno, Italy, Awards, Air Medal, Purple Heart, Missing enemy action Last seen upside down with left engine on fire. Not seen to crash. Approx. 1200 hrs., 15-20 mi. SW of Marsala. Pilot had prior service with 84FS, 78FG, based at Station 345, incident on 24 Jan 1943,* in 43-2178 at Goxhill/Sta 345, England
.
11-May-43
.
Another pilot claimed 2 victories over Bf 109 (?):

Newman, William J
O-421294
49FS
14FG
12AF

Claims 2 victories
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Old 8th May 2018, 15:31
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: JG 53' "abschusse": 11/05/43

31st FG lost one Spitfire

http://raf-112-squadron.org/31stfghonor_roll43_44.html

1304 there are 2 planes with this MACR # other one is 42-5875
11 May 43
JK609
Spitfire VcT
Frost, Edward*M Jr
O-798121
308FS
31FG
12AF
POW
Plane Coded HL- L,. Location, Vicinity, S E Of Sulmona 10 Miles, Point Of Departure, Pomigliano A/D. North African Theatre: Italy. Stalag 7A Moosburg Bavaria 48-12 (Work Camps 3324-46 Krumbachstrasse 48011, Work Camp 3368 Munich 48-11). Returned to Military Control, Liberated or Repatriated
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Old 8th May 2018, 15:39
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: JG 53' "abschusse": 11/05/43

Michel,

Unfortunately I do not have access to the daily MACR, which could probably answer you accordingly. Maybe someone from the US do have them...

The 14th FG actions could be a good start...maybe there were some airplanes damaged that returned and were wrongly claimed as victories...who knows?

Cheerio
Adriano
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Old 8th May 2018, 16:58
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: JG 53' "abschusse": 11/05/43

Hello Adriano,

according to the MACR 1304 the Spitfire Vc JK609 was lost on 5 November 1943, not 11 May 1943.

In the JFV Vol. 11/II (Prien-Stemmer-Rodeike-Bock) are listed the following claims of the III./JG 53 on 11 May 1943:
Stab III./JG 53 Hptm Franz Götz B-25 12.24 10 km west of Marsala confirmed
8./JG 53 Uffz Jens Bahnsen B-25 12.25 10 km west of Marsala confirmed
9./JG 53 Uffz Wilhelm Manz P-38 12.25 10 km northeast of Marsala not confirmed
9./JG 53 Fw Helmut Kühl B-26 12.50 10 km west of Marsala not confirmed.

Regards
Leo
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Old 12th May 2018, 12:43
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Re: JG 53' "abschusse": 11/05/43

Thank you all for yours efforts.

I am surprised and WARY about the facts reported.

5 sources.....4 versions!surely a record!!

Michel
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