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  #1  
Old 4th August 2010, 06:11
NickM NickM is offline
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USAF air to air losses during 'Linebacker I'

Guys:

I was wondering if anybody here could provide me with info RE: of air-to-air losses suffered by the USAF(NOT the USN) during Freedom Train/Linebacker I;

I was reading Marshal Michel's book 'Clashes' & he commented that the USAF suffered 24( or was it 28??) losses to NVAF Migs---and he added that 18 of those losses were various marks of F4 Phantoms...an interesting statistic was that 9 of those losses were by F4s tasked with 'close escort' of the strike aircraft or 'chaff dispensing' aircraft; 6 were F4s tasked with 'MigCAP' duties; I recall from my reading that 3 'chaff dropping' F4s were also lost to Migs so presumably they round out the 18 losses;
(Interestingly enough, it doesn't appear that any F4s tasked as 'strike aircraft were lost to Migs)

So...what aircraft were the rest of the losses? Presumably several F105s flying Wild Weasel missions were lost but I didn't notice how many were lost--or if any other aircraft were shot down;

Thanks ahead of time;


NM
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Old 5th August 2010, 09:34
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: USAF air to air losses during 'Linebacker I'

From he very detailed book Vietnam Air Losses by Chris Hobson that describes each and every USAF, USN and USMC fixed-wing a/c loss I could make out the following.

In the 10 May 72-12 Oct 72 period a total of 24 fighters were lost due to Migs (2 Mig-19 cannon, 1 probable Mig-19, 21 Mig-21 missile). Of these 24, 23 were F-4D/E and 1 F-105G.
You can add 1 F-105G as an indirect loss, when in a dogfight with a MiG a launched Sidewinder from the Weasel exploded prematurely and so damaged the a/c that the crew had to eject off Danang.
The tasks of the 24 lost a/c were: 6 CAP, 9 escort, 1 SEAD (F-105), 4 chaff, 2 SAR protection and 2 strike.
The other "indirect" F-105 was on a SEAD mission.

In Linebacker II the USAF lost 2 x F4E due to Migs.

Regards,

Leendert
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Old 5th August 2010, 11:54
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: USAF air to air losses during 'Linebacker I'

Just to add that I only mentioned the USAF losses. There were some USN/USMC as well.

Regards,

Leendert
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Old 6th August 2010, 05:04
NickM NickM is offline
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Re: USAF air to air losses during 'Linebacker I'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leendert View Post
Just to add that I only mentioned the USAF losses. There were some USN/USMC as well.

Regards,

Leendert
Thanks; USAF was exactly what I needed; so almost ALL the losses except for the F-105 were F4s; Do you happen to have the dates & details of the losses of the 'strike craft'?

Thx

NM
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Old 6th August 2010, 06:00
mars mars is offline
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Re: USAF air to air losses during 'Linebacker I'

'Linebacker I" lasted more than 5 months, it would take quite long time to check it out, if you want to know USAF loses to Mig on a particular day, that would be much more to answer, otherwise I recommand you the book "Vietnam air losses: United States air force navy and marine corps fixed-wing aircraft losses in southeast asia 1961-1973" by Chris Hobson
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Old 6th August 2010, 08:32
NickM NickM is offline
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Re: USAF air to air losses during 'Linebacker I'

Ah well...no particular dates interest me actually; just the type of aircraft & the role they were performing when shot down;

AND another interesting factoid from Leendert's info: Michel said 18 of the 24 USAF aircraft lost to Migs were F4s; however Leendert's info seems to show that 23 of the 24 were F4s--and my count of lost chaffers was off too--AND also I also seem to have missed losses suffered by strike craft as well...I MIGHT want to re-read the chapter.

NM

Last edited by NickM; 6th August 2010 at 08:41. Reason: (adding comments)
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Old 6th August 2010, 14:00
mars mars is offline
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Re: USAF air to air losses during 'Linebacker I'

May 10 1972
F-4D 65-0784 555 TFS, 432 TRW USAF shot down by J-6 (Chinese version of Mig-19) Major Robert Lodge KIA Cap Roger Locher survived
F-4E 67-0386 58thTFS, 432 TRW USAF, shot dwon by J-6 Cap Jeffrey Harris KIA Cap Dennis Wikinson KIA
May 11, 1972:
F-4D 66-0230 555TFS 432 TRW USAF, shot down by Mig-21 Lt Col Joseph Kittinger POW 1Lt William Reich POW

to be continued when I have time
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Old 7th August 2010, 02:50
mars mars is offline
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Re: USAF air to air losses during 'Linebacker I'

May 18 1972
F-4D 66-7612 421 TFS, 366 TFW USAF shot down by J-6 1Lt Wesley Razel KIA 1Lt Jonathan Bednarek KIA
May 20 1972
F-4D 65-0600 555 TFS 432 TRW USAF shot down by Mig-21 1Lt John Markle survived Cap James Williams POW
Jun 13 1972
F-4E 67-0365 308 TFS 31 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 1Lt Gregg Hanson POW 1Lt Richard Fulton POW
Jun 21 1972
F-4E 69-0282 334 TFS 4 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Cap George Rose POW 1Lt Peter Callaghan POW
Jun 24 1972:
F-4E 66-0315 421 TFS 366 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Cap David Grant POW CApt William Beekman POW
F-4D 66-7636 25 TFS 8 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 1Lt James McCarty KIA 1Lt Charles Jackson POW
Jun 27 1972
F-4E 67-0243 308 TFS 31 TFW USAFshot down by Mig-21 Capt John Cerak POW Capt David Dingee POW
F-4E 69-7271 366 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Capt Lynn Aikman surivived Capt Thomas Hanton POW
F-4E 69-7296 366 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Maj R Miller survived 1Lt Richard McDow POW
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Old 7th August 2010, 03:05
mars mars is offline
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mars
Re: USAF air to air losses during 'Linebacker I'

July 5 1972
F-4E 67-0399 34 TFS 388 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Maj William Elander POW 1Lt Donald Logan POW
F-4E 67-0296 34 TFS 388 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Capt William Spencer POW 1Lt Brian Seek POW
July 8 1972
F-4E 69-7563 4 TFS 366 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Lt Col R Ross survived Capt S Imaye survived
July 10 1972
F-4J 155803 VF-103 USN USS Saratoga shot down by Mig-17 Lt Robert Randall POW Lt Frederick Masterson POW
July 24 1972
F-4E 66-0369 421 TFS 366 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Capt S Hondnett survived 1Lt D Fallert survived
July 29 1972
F-4E 66-0367 4 TFS 366 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Capt James Kula POW Capt Melvin Matsui POW
F-105G 62-4443 17 WWS 388 TFW USAF shot down by its own missle while dogfighing Mig-21 Maj T Coady survived Maj H Murphy survived
July 30 1972
F-4D 66-7597 523 TFS 405TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 CApt G Brooks survived Capt J McAdams survived
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Old 7th August 2010, 03:19
mars mars is offline
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Re: USAF air to air losses during 'Linebacker I'

Aug 26 1972
F-4J 155811 VMF-232 MAG-15 USMC shot down by Mig-21 1Lt Sam Gordova KIA 1Lt D Borders survived
Sept 11 1972
F-4E 69-0288 335 TFS 4 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Capt Brian Ratzlaff POW Capt Jerome Heeren POW
Sept 12 1972
F-4E 69-7266 336 TFS 4 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Capt Rudolph Zuberbuhler POW Capt Frederick ScMurray POW
Oct 5 1972
F-4D 66-8738 335 TFS 4 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Capt Keith Lewis POW Capt John Alpers POW
Oct 6 1972
F-4E 69-7573 307 TFS 31 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Capt J White survived Capt A Egge survived
Oct 12 1972
F-4E 69-0276 469 TFS 388 TFW USAF shot down by Mig-21 Capt Myron Young POW 1Lt Cecil Brunson POW

That is all I have 25 aircrafts, include 1 from USMC and another from US Navy
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