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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#21
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Re: Robert Spreckels
Thanks for the information, fleshes out Spreckels' career a little more.
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#22
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Re: Robert Spreckels
With Spreckels
I have never been able to find any loss for him, these usually explain long breaks in pilots claims due to wounds/injuries. But having scrutinizing many flugbücher what is clear is that they were nearly always busy, this might include a period of training, or as a trainer. Seems he is likely to have survived the war. With his total claims, see my Kurt Ubben thread. The points system might very well explain why his known claims is so much smaller that his total given. Erik Mombeek gives a pretty concise explanation in a section about claims and how they were made/processed, and the points system in his latest publication "Luftwaffe Gallery" "Luck, Fate and Destiny", he uses the claims of Walter Loos as an example. Kind Regards Johannes |
#23
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Re: Robert Spreckels
Quote:
Reviewing the book I've suddenly realised Spreckels also wrote the introduction to the 1961 edition. He describes the fact that Braham was the 'third' Mosquito he had claimed.(?) He also mentions being in hospital "for a long time" after being shot down during Bodenplatte 1/1/45 (which brings into doubt any unconfirmed Soviet claims with JG11 Jan-Apr 1945?) and post 1945 returning to his pre-war job with a Hamburg shipping company. He mentions his parent's death in an Hamburg air raid too. Braham mentions he first met Spreckels soon after capture and was introduced to his victor- a Leutnant and with 45 claims. There is also reference to Spreckels imminent move to the Normandy front as he asked Braham about the 'capability' of Spitfires. Ironic that alot of what we know is from an Allied ace's biog. |
#24
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Re: Robert Spreckels
Hi Harryurz
Many thanks for your contribution. Yesterday I specifically welt through the mikrofilm losses for the Luftwaffe for 01/01/1945, units are clumped together, but I went through the whole lot, and there is nothing for Spreckles. However I do think now that it is unlikely that two Russian aircraft were claimed for this pilot. I think this is based solely on Prien's earlier JG1/JG11 publication, which also proclaims another two Russian aircraft in a period covered by the mikrofilms, and these are not recorded when they certainly would have been. Refering again to Mombeek's "Luftwaffe Gallery, Luck, Fate and Destiny"...IBAN:978-2-930546-23-0 points system, Spreckles four "kills" would amount to nine points in theory, what is unknown is if this pilot finished-off or damaged any other aircraft.........you would thin so, these would have been awarded minor points, or even half points. So in my opinion Spreckles twelve "kills" is likely to be twelve "points". He had three points for the destruction of a "viermot" , two points for a "viermot" H.S.S and two points for each of the Mosquito's. Spreckles claims in themselves are rather odd, all are quality aircraft, the destruction of a Mosquito was as revered as much as a "viermot". Hopefully our losses expert Matti is reading this, his opinion on Spreckles being shot down and wounded during "Bodenplatte" would be final on that particular topic. We could see if somebody has a late war photo of Spreckles and see if there is a wounded badge on him. One assumes that he would have been awarded the EK1, but again referring to Mombeek's book there was a second points system working(this was news to me), this awarded points though small for particular sorties, and fifty points for shooting down a single-engined fighter, so it's impossible to associate decorations with "kills" really. Spreckles two Mosquito claims were with AST./JG11, I know nothing about his unit, but suspect they flew aircraft designed to combat these ellusive Mosquito's JG50 previously were assigned this task...unsuccessfully, but when dis-banded the pilots joined JG1/JG11. Kind Regards Johannes Last edited by Johannes; 24th October 2020 at 11:59. |
#25
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Re: Robert Spreckels
Hi Johannes,
Thanks for your comments. From an initial idle thought I had when re-reading "Scamble" it has become a fascinating exercise to try and piece together a pilot's career from 80 years ago! I was intrerested to read Spreckels' own words in the book introduction, especially regarding the 26 June 1944 downing of Braham as his 'third Mosquito.' Looking further though the JG 11 claim listings there is indeed a uncredited Mosquito claim by 10 staffel; 12.05.44 N.N. 10./JG 11 Mosquito - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1208 This also matches with Braham's brush with fighters on this day. Braham/Gregory flew an 'Intruder' to the Skagerrat in a borrowed 107 sqdn Mosquito. He sighted a 190 near Herning and chased it, but was in turn chased by a 109, which holed his fuel lines, before disappearing from view. Braham fired from a range of about 100 yards, knocking off the e/a's starboard elevator as well as parts from the cockpit. The engine caught fire, the e/a reared up and stalled, and after almost colliding with with the Mosquito, crashed about 10 miles from Aalborg. The tail section was seen by F/L Gregory to disintegrate and reported the Fw 190 crashed into a river bank. Over the North Sea due to the fuel damage he ran out of fuel 70 miles from Cromer and ditched near a convoy of three trawlers and was picked up (at 14:15 hrs) . 107 Sqn, based at Lasham, lost FB.VI NS885 "OM-B" missing on that date. (Air 25/40. Ops. Order from 2 Group HQ, 12. May 1944, issued by F/Lt. Riseley confirms.) If indeed Spreckels did claim not two but three Mosquitoes, then there is a intriguing possibility is he may have shot Bob Braham down twice? Comments anyone? |
#26
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Re: Robert Spreckels
According to JFV 13/V the Ast/JG 11 was formed in mid May 1944 from parts of 10. and 11./JG 11 and disbanded on 25 Sep 1944, base Aalborg-Ost. Details on pages 140 and 141.
In the claims table of 10./JG 11 (JFV 13/V page 133) one confirmed Mosquito claim is listed: 7 Apr 1944 Uffz Georg Borkenhagen 11.58 PlQu. 05 Ost S/MQ 5. Regards Leo |
#27
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Re: Robert Spreckels
Additionally, according to https://www.airmen.dk/p327.htm Spreckels was at Aalborg May-June '44 to help convert bomber pilots to fly fighters.
This could suggest Spreckels was recognised as a competent instructor and maybe accounts for the large gaps between claims, if he was heavily involved with Ausbildungsstaffel/JG 11 during 1943-44? Its a bit like clutching at straws, but who knows..... |
#28
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Re: Robert Spreckels
Spreckels own words.
Junker Last edited by ju55dk; 18th February 2021 at 18:26. |
#29
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Re: Robert Spreckels
Hi Harryurz
I think that 10./JG11 was in the East at this time. JG50's aircraft were special Bf109's for extreme altitude, I just wonder if they went with there pilots to JG11. Could be they were scrambled for high altitude Mosquito's, but in each case these Mosquito's were shot-down at low altitude. Kind Regards Johannes |
#30
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Re: Robert Spreckels
I have not found any NVMs for Robert Spreckels.If he was shot down or made emergency landings four times, he obviously was never wounded, because no NVM was made.
In 1 Jan 1945 there were several aircraft of III./JG 11 lost without pilot's name. So, Spreckels could have been on one of them, but I have no means to confirm that. Matti |
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