Lt Rüdiger Kirchmayr

[Stig Jarlevik]

During my stay in NZ i could now and then check TOCH for details and thus copied items of interest.
Unfortunately I have copied something regarding Kirchmayr I now cannot find!
So my apologies for copying my notes taken here, since I cannot corelate the data it contains. So here we go:
i.e. Kirchmayr being s/d on 15.10.41 was and the role of the later ace Jennewein new to me:
Two sorties in Rotte in the morning.Third mission t/o 13:10h with three Schwärme. Shot down by Spitfires attacking out of the sun from 8.000m in Bf.109E-7 Wnr.7677 (100% loss), baled out over the Channel 80-90km from the coast near Epeuville, sighted whilst descending by Fw.Pfeiffer (who was pursued out of ammo by 2 Spitfires N to S) and later by his comrade „Peppi“ Jennewein, who led the rescue boats in, rescued and picked up at 20:22h from sea by ASR squadron Cherbourg after finding the pilot with searchlight. Kirchmayr was three days in Rouen hospital (body temperature was 28°C) and back at the Staffel on 20.10.41. Jennewein reported on 15.10.41: „ At 18:56h t/o as Rottenführer with Fw. Pfeiffer for ASR mission. Flew 310° (course) where at 13:32 my wingman had sighted a parachute. Then I sighted red rocket right ahead. Turning around I overflew a small dinghy at 19:13h the position with 312° at 100m altitutde with 400km/h. At 19:24h reached coast at the most northwestern houses of St Abbey reported the position by FT“
JFS 5 also lost on 15.10.41 Lt Elmar Resch in a crash with Bf.109F-2 Wnr.12691 (100%) near Le Havre (WIA) and Bf.109E Wnr.5617 on t/o at Le Havre A/D (65%) - Kirchmayr´s diary says two more losses by JFS 5 and nearly all Bf.109s took hits, successes claimed, but not confirmed. Of 234 Sq. RAF S/Ldr. H.M. Stephen and F/O P.I. Howard-Williams claimed 1 Bf.109F shared s/d, other pilots from the Squadron 1 probable and 3 damaged and 118 Sq. RAF pilots 2 Bf.109Fs s/d off Le Havre after t/o from Ibsley at 12:30h. Earlier W/Cdr. H.C.A. Woodhouse (GC of Tangmere Wing) and one pilot from 129 Sq. RAF claimed 1 Bf.109F each at ca.12:45h and 12:35h off Le Havre

Nothing with regard to losses checks out when looking in JFV Teil 5 which says
Resch was lost in WNr 7677
No WNr 5617 is mentioned, but a WNr 5611 was lost in a crash landing (not take off), different places as well.
WNr 12691 is listed as lost in a crash landing at Le Havre (no casualty)

So from where comes Kirchmayr being shot down in WNr 7677 and on top
coming down in the sea?
Why does the loss data differ at all?

Lookin in Foreman/Bock's book Air-War 1941 The non-stop Offensive part 2
they have the combat but does not bother to list the losses of 4./JFS 5....

Cheers
Stig

[Monaco]

Hello Stig,

the losses are from Michael Balss´list, where 7677 is mentioned lost (100%) crashing near Epeuville (pilot unknown bailed out), 12691 crashed (100%) near Le Havre (Lt Resch wounded), 5617 damaged (65%) in t/o accident at Le Havre A/D (unknown pilot unhurt).
As in 7677 the pilot bailed out, I assumed it could have been Kirchmayr´s plane, but as Epeuville is probably Épouville (15km NE Le Havre) it seems unlikely, that when it crashed nearby, it was lost over sea.

The diary as such is suspect as long as there is no prove in other documents, i.e. Johannes found Kirchmayr´s Abschussmeldung for 2 May 1943 and from there it is clear that his official victories stood at 4 and not at 10 as he counted in his own diary.

Balss mentions GQM-Schulen (MB) as his source, but his list is huge, so there can be mistakes.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Monaco

I wonder how Balss and Prien can read the records so differently?
So nothing is mentioned as such that anything went into the sea, good to know.

Beside Kirchmayer's diary there is basically nothing else which supports his dramatic tale.....hmmmm

Cheers
Stig

[VtwinVince]

I was under the impression that this guy's name was von Kirchmayr?

[Franek Grabowski]

The question is, if it is a diary written at the time of the events or a post factum memories.
If the former, I would not dismiss it so easily. Victories claimed as recorded in the diary may have been not confirmed. Also, Martin just recently did a cross check of some documents with surprising results (for some). It looks like gaps in HQ6 are more serious than expected.
Aside, I have generated a text file of vK diary. It needs editing and corrections, but I think it would be much easier to refer to and verify what he had actually written. I have no time to do the job now, so if anyone is willing to, I can share the file.

[Monaco]

Hello Franek,
I wanted to sent you a PM, but your Inbox is full.

Regards

Michael

[Franek Grabowski]

It is cleared now!
Franek

[Monaco]

Now I have access to Prien´s Jagdfliegerverbände V and see what he has on JFS 5.
For von Kirchmayr he i.e. on 11.12.41 1 Blenheim s/d northwest of Le Havre n.b. (nicht bestätigt)

In his "Tagebuch" on Youtube this combat is described as:
Encountered Blenheim in bad weather near Le Havre at 4000m over sea course England, fire opened from 150m, explosion in the right engine, spiralled down – no parachutes.

No RAF or CC Blenheim lost.
Chorley has Hampden I AE353 „PL-...“ of 144 Sq. RAF (t/o North Luffenham) FTR. It was believed damaged over the target (Brest) and crashed later in sea off the Sussex coast with P/O C.B. Payne and crew all perishing.

The route back from Brest could have brought AE353 before the guns of von Kirchmayr and the type though quite dfferent to a Blenheim was not recognised in bad weather and darkness.

It´s a pity that we have no t/o times. Does anyone has the ORB of 144 Squadron for 11 December 1941?

[Monaco]

For 15.10.41 combat Prien has Bf.109E-7 "White 7 +" Wnr.7677 with Lt. Elmar Resch (WIA) s/d by own flak near Harfleur (100%), Bf.109F-1 Wnr.5611 crash-landing at Octeville (65%) pilot (unknown) safe and Bf.109F-2 Wnr.12691 crashing near Le Havre, pilot (unknown) safe.
If he is right 12691 could have been Kirchmayr´s mount. At least Jennewein was in the air that day claiming 2 Spitfires s/d as his victories No.4-5 and No.40/45 for the Staffel.

[robert]

According to Resch`s logbook it was Bf109F and he bailed out at 13.30 hrs.