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  #11  
Old 3rd April 2011, 18:41
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: Austrian FIAT CR.32s

Hello Harald (and others interested in this obscure story),

From German files on the export of captured materiel, 36 CR 32 and 4 CR 30, along with 34 FIAT A 30 engines, were sold to Hungary in 1940.
So, this clarifies the question on total numbers.

Now, it would be interesting to find out the constr- nos. of the 36+4 FIATs sold to Hungary.

I was told that Öfh Nachrichten No. 2/08 has the story of the CR.20s. Do you have access to this magazine (not only this number)? Perhaps the topic of the CR.30s and CR.32s is clarified in other issues...
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  #12  
Old 3rd April 2011, 20:19
harryfighter harryfighter is offline
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Re: Austrian FIAT CR.32s

Hello Denes,

I'm a founding member of the Austrian Aircraft Historians (Österreichische Flugzeug Hisotriker) and Schriftführer of this reg. association, of course I've all the magazines since 1975. Look also at our website www.oefh.at. My special interest is the aviation between the wars in Austria.

Fiat Cr 20 was an article in two numbers in 2008.

Sorry to say but it is not clear which Chirris were sold to Hungary.

Best wishes,

Harald
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  #13  
Old 4th April 2011, 23:25
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Austrian FIAT CR.32s

Hallo Harald/Dénes

I agree with Harald that no Austrian CR.20bis went to Hungary. The Hungarian CR.20 were bought much earlier directly from Italy.

Harald there is a slight error in your statement about DNr 12. It cannot have had c/n 1803 as well as MM 1803. The MM number sounds correct, since at that time a Fiat c/n as high as 1803 is improbable.

Since I don't have the issue 2/2008 (I was not a member until 2009 ) is it possible to list the two CR.20 singleseaters which were w/o before any DNr were received?

Cheers
Stig
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  #14  
Old 5th April 2011, 21:07
harryfighter harryfighter is offline
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Re: Austrian FIAT CR.32s

Hello Stig!

You are absolutely right, I think that nr. 1803 for the Cr 20 biposto, later DNr.12, is not the real construction number but the MM. The official records from the Luftstreitkräfte in the thirties state this nr. 1803 as c/n, therefore the use of this obviously wrong number, but it is not the only misuse of MM numbers in the records.

The Cr 20 biposto DNr.11 had the c/n 143 and there is no MM known.

Here are the two Cr 20 w/o before DNr. were given:

A-63, (A-208 was intended) c/n 422, this aircraft collided with an U-12a Flamingo A-74 on the 9th of April 1934.

A-215, c/n 2250, this should also be the MM, collided with U-12a Flamingo A-111 and crashed on the 2nd May 1935.

Greetings,

Harald
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  #15  
Old 10th April 2011, 00:17
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Austrian FIAT CR.32s

Thanks Harry

Appreciate your updates

Cheers
Stig
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  #16  
Old 23rd April 2011, 16:54
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: Austrian FIAT CR.32s

Harald, are the Constr. Nos. of Austrian FIAT CR.32s known?
If yes, I am wondering if 928 (or 926) and 518 are among them?
Thanks,
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  #17  
Old 24th April 2011, 14:43
harryfighter harryfighter is offline
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Re: Austrian FIAT CR.32s

Hello Denes,

Yes the construction numbers of the Austrian Fiat Cr 32 are known. I've two sources - a handwritten register from the Lustreitkräfte in the thirties and a "Bestandsliste der Flugzeugzellen" from the "Abwicklungsstelle des Kommandos der Luftstreitkräfte" in 1938. Unfortunately there are different cnr. for some Cr 32 in both lists.

928 or 926 are not in both lists. The cnr. 518 is DNr. 166 in the handwritten reg. and DNr. 161 in the 1938 register.

The 1938 reg. states for cnr.524 the DNr. 165, the handwritten reg. states DNr. 164, I've a photographic evidence that 164 is correct. So you see it is not so easy.

The handwritten reg. states also cnr. 1169, 1177, 1172, and so on for some Cr32, I think that these numbers are not correct, maybe an error with cnr. of the engines. The are not mentioned in the 1938 reg.

All the Austrian Cr 32 are built in 1934 and the cnr. are going from 418 to 542.

By this way another question: Do you know anything about the aircraft from Hptm Lipfert in March 1945 in Hungary? This should be a Bf 109 G-10 and he made a crash landing on the 24th of March in Vat (nearby Szombathely), at this time he was Gruppenkommandeur of the I/JG53.

Greetings from Austria,

Harald
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  #18  
Old 26th April 2011, 08:46
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: Austrian FIAT CR.32s

See below.
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  #19  
Old 26th April 2011, 08:48
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: Austrian FIAT CR.32s

Thank you, Harald, for the confirmation and interesting info.

Can you confirm that all Austrian CR.32s were of 'bis' sub-type (from c/n 418 up)?

I am sorry, but I don't have anything about Lifpert in Hungary, except for what it has already been published in various German and English books.

Best wishes,
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