Russian shoot down of L-4 Cub on 2 May 1945?

[Leendert]

On 2 May 1945 a US Army L-4H Cub (43-30385) was believed to be shot down by (2) Russian (LAG-3) fighters over E. Germany, possibly Seehausen.
The two occupants, Major Keith C. Morrison and Group Chaplain Capt. Ralph A. Antonucci of the 196th FA Group died on 8 May and 5 May 1945 respectively.

I wonder if a claim has survived on Russian side of a similar German light aircraft type in the Seehausen area?

Thanks for the info.

Regards and all the best for 2015,

Leendert

[NUPPOL]

Major Morrison memorial
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...385096&df=all&
Captain Antonucci memorial
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...222491&df=all&

[BartekPL]

Hello,

I think, I might have an answer, rather very surprising to some people as I presume. The pilots behind this unfortunate event might be from a "Polish", not Soviet unit. According to the information, which can be found in the "Lotnictwo Polski Ludowej 1944-1947" (1st edition, Warszawa 1987) by Izydor Koliński on page 292, on 2nd May 1945, a pair of pilots of the 11 plm (Polish 11th Fighter Aviation Regiment), in rank of chorąży - Michaił Siergiejewicz Ponomariow (Михаил Сергеевич Пономарёв - future Hero of the Soviet Union) and Aleksy Krasucki (Александр Красуцкий) were on a reconnaissance mission, to the West of Neuruppin. In the area of "Wüsterhausen" (nowadays on Google Maps it should be Wusterhausen/Dosse), they spotted a lone Fi-156, flying at an altitude of 100 meters. The pair's leader - Ponomariow left Krasucki as a cover while he himself attacked the enemy airplane, shooting it down quick. Soon after, the pair spotted another enemy plane, Hs-126 (in other sources also listed as Fi-156 or Hs-129), flying the same axis but from the opposite direction (probably the author meant the second plane came from the West, flying Eastwards). Ponomariow approached the enemy from the side/behind and opened fire from a distance of 200 meters however the enemy pilot momentarily made a turn and tried to save himself by diving and flying at a very low altitude. At this point, it was hit by Krasucki, who attacked it head-on from the top, eventually enemy airplane hit the ground.

A slightly different version is presented in a very unique (this work isn't listed by any of the known to me libraries and book indexes, no sign of it even in worldcat and alike places) "Z dziejów 11 pułku lotnictwa myśliwskiego" by Zenon Łobacz (Warszawa 1969). I will allow myself to translate a part of it for discussion purposes.

During the day, the regiment was executing following tasks: reconnaissance in the area Nitzow-Harzberg-Schonhausen-Rathenow, providing cover for 6 plsz in the area Wittstock-Hawelberg-Rathenow, maintaining combat readiness and ground defense on the airfield.
At 12 AM regiment received a message about German troops crossing the Havel and Elbe rivers westward. Immediately two pairs of airplanes were sent to localize the crossings.
Groups of airplanes were performing combat tasks over and behind the frontline. One of the pairs, while on a reconnaissance in the area Hawelberg-Nitzow, in the afternoon hours encountered enemy airplanes with which it fought two air combats. The pair was led by chor. Ponomariow, with the second pilot being chor. Krasucki. Their task was to localize the place of ground troops' crossings over Halbe and Elbe rivers. It was a quite difficult task due to fog over rivers and low cloud base reaching 300-400 metres and visibility limited to 3-4 kilometres.
The pair was flying down the Havel river at an altitude of 100 meters. Beofre Havelberg, Ponomariow spotted an enemy airplane, which probably was managing the crossing of the German troops westward over Havel and Elbe withdrawing westward from before the 1st Polish Army, to surrender to the Americans.
Chor. Ponomariow made a left turn gaining altitude to attack the enemy with height advantage. Surprised "Fieseler-Storch" tried escaping into clouds, however a pair of Yaks held him in the aiming sights.
The first to attack was Ponomariow. He opened fire from a close distance in the direction of Fieseler, which started to lose altitude but didn't catch fire. Then Krasucki decided to attack it. The attack was successful. "Fieseler-Storch" fell on the left banks of Havel river, meanwhile at low altitude the pair came under dense anti-aircraft fire. The pair came out all right maneuvering, quickly gaining altitude, in order to attack now a crossing over Havel river, and further over Elbe. They made a pass, but the heavy anti-aircraft fire forced them to leave the area.
The pair continued their flight as far as the Havel estuary of the Elbe. The pilots' joy knew no limit as it was their first shot down aircraft. A daring attack in hard conditions was masterfully executed. Continuing flight, pilots encountered another German reconnaissance aircraft "Fieseler-Storch", which after a moment shared his colleague's fate, shot down with an accurate Krasucki's burst.
Chor. Krasucki was unable to contain himself with joy, he was really proud of his victory, of his second success in air combat.
After the second victorious fight, the pair changed the course and continued flight upstream of Elbe river. Without reaching Schenhauzen, they made a 90 degree turn right and took a course for Berlin.

I kept the original spelling of some phrases and most of the places in the text, obviously there are some mistakes in the names of towns and cities in the text, however, I found it better to leave them be, so anyone can make their own assumptions and research, quite easy using even mentioned Google Maps. Overall, the story seems to check out, when it comes to the place and date, but as usual, we cannot be 100% certain without more precise data.

I think it is worth to mention at least two more things: 6 plsz stands for 6 pułk lotnictwa szturmowego (Polish 6th Assault Aviation Regiment (Il-2)), mentioned above pilots of the 11 plm flew Yakovlev Yak-9 of M or T type.

Best regards,
Bartłomiej

[Leendert]

Bartolomiej,

Well, this is unexpected, welcome information!
There is indeed a Seehausen (of several more) close to Havelberg.

In Ken Wakefield's book 'The Other Ninth Air Force' it says for 2 May 1945 that 'Two aircraft were after him", referring to the L-4.

And on 4 May: "Persons seeing the accident claim the markings on the ship were everything from Red stars to red circles. A check with aircraft spotters in the area shows the only planes over the area were three LAG 3s (Russian single-engined fighters)"

On 6 May: "Russians won't let us get to the wreckage of 196th Gp aircraft which was shot down on May 2"

If no German Fi-156 loss comes forward after all, then the Polish texts are quite convincing. Only 'caveat' seems to be the spotting of red stars on the attacking aircraft, whereas the Polish fighters had their national square, red-white blocked ones?
To distinguish between a LaGG-3 and a Yak-9 by (Allied) ground spotters, is a different matter.
Thanks again for sharing and for bringing this to my/our attention after almost eight years...
Losses of artillery spotter airplanes and their pilots/observers are not frequently researched, so any information about these is much appreciated.

Regards,
Leendert

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Leendert

Bartolomiej,

And on 4 May: "Persons seeing the accident claim the markings on the ship were everything from Red stars to red circles. A check with aircraft spotters in the area shows the only planes over the area were three LAG 3s (Russian single-engined fighters)"
Only 'caveat' seems to be the spotting of red stars on the attacking aircraft, whereas the Polish fighters had their national square, red-white blocked ones?
To distinguish between a LaGG-3 and a Yak-9 by (Allied) ground spotters, is a different matter.
Regards,
Leendert

Leendert

I don't believe the Polish units fighting within the Soviet Air Force were allowed to carry any
national fuselage side/underwing markings.
What they were allowed to have was the Polish marking underneath the cockpit.
Not until the Polish AF was formed postwar was their national markings resurrected

With regard to aircraft identification from the ground, I doubt they could tell the difference between
any aircraft as such.
When not even the opposing pilots could do it, there is no way anyone on the ground would be any
better.....

B Rgds
Stig

[BartekPL]

Leendert,

Originally Posted by Leendert

Only 'caveat' seems to be the spotting of red stars on the attacking aircraft, whereas the Polish fighters had their national square, red-white blocked ones?

Actually, this part of the witnesses' accounts fits very well. Polish Air Force on the Eastern Front, similarly to those flying in the West, could only apply a checkerboard on the engine cowling or behind it, with the difference being - on the Eastern Front it seemingly wasn't strictly regulated, thus one can see checkerboards of various sizes, but as mentioned only on the engine cowling or behind it/under the pilot's cabin. Polish fighter aviation regiments used the standard Soviet fighter camouflage in this period: dark grey+blue grey upper surfaces with the lower surfaces being painted in light blue (this obviously does not apply to Polish assault, bomber and night bomber aviation regiments and smaller units), like seen on the Yak-1B photo and the Yak-9M color scheme (color scheme via https://warspot.ru/6727-tsveta-voenn...anskogo-fronta) of 1 "Warszawa" plm aircraft, from April-May 1945 period.






Best regards,
Bartłomiej

[Leendert]

Thanks for additional info on the use of Polish national insignia on the Eastern Front. I read somewhere that operations stopped next day for the Polish regiment involved and if so, then this incident has been quite unfortunate...Regards, Leendert

[BartekPL]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

Leendert

I don't believe the Polish units fighting within the Soviet Air Force were allowed to carry any
national fuselage side/underwing markings.
What they were allowed to have was the Polish marking underneath the cockpit.
Not until the Polish AF was formed postwar was their national markings resurrected

With regard to aircraft identification from the ground, I doubt they could tell the difference between
any aircraft as such.
When not even the opposing pilots could do it, there is no way anyone on the ground would be any
better.....

B Rgds
Stig

I think it was slightly different. While I don't consider the forming of 1 "Warszawa" plm as the beginning date of existence of strictly the Polish Air Force on the Eastern Front, in June of 1944 IIRC at the Headquarters of the Polish 1st Army, an Air Force section was created. Later, the same year, the Command of the Air Force of the Polish Army was created as well, so I think saying the Polish Air Force was created after the war is incorrect, to some extent. Before great reforms in the Air Force and name change (to Polish Air Force in 1947), already in July 1945 an official order to use the Polish checkerboard instead the Red Star was issued, although it is still uncertain, whether some planes didn't have red stars overpainted with checkerboard earlier.

Originally Posted by Leendert

Thanks for additional info on the use of Polish national insignia on the Eastern Front. I read somewhere that operations stopped next day for the Polish regiment involved and if so, then this incident has been quite unfortunate...Regards, Leendert

Here is a link to a post with short info on most big Polish units on the Eastern Front. It is true that for 11 plm combat operations ended on 3rd May 1945.




http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=54219



I would love to have a look into USA archival documents or at least the mentioned book, to be able to write a small article on this unfortunate event. It is, after all, the last "official confirmed claim made by a Polish unit during WWII", although this statement is quite controversial in Poland nowadays.


Best regards,
Bartłomiej

[Leendert]

Bartlomiej,

In the shoot down story in #3 of the "Fieseler Storch" it says they claimed another one as well, I belatedly realized.
In the book by Ken Wakefield it comes to light that this second one may just have been a US Army L-4 too.

On 2 May 1945 it is written:
"XIII Corps Arty Exec., Col. Williams, called and reported incomplete details of two AIR OP losses on May 2, both believed due to action by Russian aircraft."

And 2 May continues:
"84th Div aircraft - no one hurt. He requested that we check at Army Group level on action taken to keep Russian and our aircraft from tangling. Called Maj. Lefever (..) who stated that 'no-fly' lines had been established between Russians and ourselves at SHAEF levels."
This Inf Div was in the area around Salzwedel in early May 1945.

84th Div L-4 likely 43-29706 (87-H) with pilot Lt. Miller who got hospitalized with a bullet wound in the hip, this according an entry on 4 May 1945.

Regards,
Leendert