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  #21  
Old 23rd January 2018, 07:34
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Il-2 killer Joachim Brendel

Hi Guys

Regarding "we will never known exactly the totals of pilots".
Personally I was warned-off about mentioning any fraudsters in publications, however sort of got around this by mentioning "his claims match Allied losses well" to those honest guys. A honest guy does not mean all his claims crashed, they were by rules record where the enemy crashed, some I believe thought they had shot down the enemy, but didn't hang around under threat of being shot down by others, I would say if 65 percent of his claims hit the ground, he was honest.

I know others where their claim was "unconfirmed", but has been proven to have fallen, but alas I still have to call in unconfirmed in their biography.

My personal view is that there were so many guys without the Ritterkreuz who were so much better men than Ritterkreuzträger who got their fame by cheating the system, in fact these unsung heroes were more the unsung grinders.....nothing seemed to come easy for them. Fortunately the DKiG often came there way, and in my opinion it is thus an underrated decoration.

I have noticed also that so many more claims in the /west were unconfirmed as opposed to those in the East, my theory is that those in the East were very often behind enemy lines, whereas those in the West had there crash-sites investigated, so the authorities knew almost exactly now many enemy aircraft had crashed(excluding those into water, or back at their home bases).
The most accurate claimers were the NJG pilots, guess a burning aircraft is so obvious at night, yet a crew could work fraudulent claims as they flew alone, yet they seemed honest guys....even the high-scorers.
Your see many a huge-claimer in the East, reduced to the occasional claim in the West, I "think" that largely they just couldn't get away with so much in the West.

Regards

Johannes
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  #22  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:38
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Il-2 killer Joachim Brendel

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Originally Posted by Johannes View Post
Hi Guys

Regarding "we will never known exactly the totals of pilots".
Personally I was warned-off about mentioning any fraudsters in publications, however sort of got around this by mentioning "his claims match Allied losses well" to those honest guys.
It reminds me of the case of the so-called Nr 1 French ace of WWII, and the legal problems you have if you contest his often repeated high score. Hey, I did not tell any name, OK ?
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  #23  
Old 23rd January 2018, 12:58
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Il-2 killer Joachim Brendel

Hello Laurent,

you mean Clostermann urged aviation historians to acknowledge a score of 20 [17+6 shared] ?

Cheers,

Michael
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  #24  
Old 23rd January 2018, 14:18
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Il-2 killer Joachim Brendel

No he sued Mr Ehrengardt (an user of this forum) in 2001 when the latter wrote that he could only find 12 victories for him, while the number used at the time was 33.
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  #25  
Old 23rd January 2018, 22:51
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Re: Il-2 killer Joachim Brendel

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Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti View Post
No he sued Mr Ehrengardt (an user of this forum) in 2001 when the latter wrote that he could only find 12 victories for him, while the number used at the time was 33.
So using the words “possibly” and “no matching record can be found” seems like were real history has to be constrained too or else.
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  #26  
Old 25th January 2018, 19:39
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Re: Il-2 killer Joachim Brendel

Dear Gentlemen,

can we agree on the following Joachim Brendel data ?
  1. 189 kills
  2. kill #1: 29.6.1941
  3. kill #100: 22.11.1943
  4. all of his kills scored in JG51
  5. 91 Bf109 kills and 98 Fw190 kills
  6. likely the top Il-2 destroyer
Michael
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  #27  
Old 27th January 2018, 17:01
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Il-2 killer Joachim Brendel

Hi Michael

Can't comment about the Bf109/Fw190 split, but agree with everything else. In fact Brendel was very,very likely the biggest Il-2 killer.

Kind Regards

Johannes
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  #28  
Old 31st January 2018, 09:44
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Il-2 killer Joachim Brendel

Good morning Johannes,

I've written an eMail about this to Petr Kacha.

Have a nice Wednesday,

Michael
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