Walter Schuck:claims against "allies"

[Brian]

Hi Stig and other interested parties:

I agree with your comments and hope that 'AIR WAR OVER THE ARCTIC: Murmansk and the Convoys 1941-1942' currently being finalised prior to publication, will answer some of the queries.

Cheers
Brian

[gaupe75]

Walter Schuck had all his belongings in his car which was sent by train to Germany when he transferred to JG7. The car was later found in Denmark, with all his belongings removed, all he had was lost.

No RAF planes were lost 16/2-45, reporting seems to be a little messy for III/JG5 during this time. But ULTRA-messages might possibly show up to make this clearer sometime.

This day is referred in his biography, and he probably remember it correctly too, but his kills were not confirmed by someone that also believed them to go down. It was probably just to much planes in a demanding fjord-scenery to have a complete control over the situation.

[Johannes]

Hi Stig

With regards to honesty/reliability. An honest unit should be claiming 130-150% of enemy losses. I have found that to call an entire Geschwader, Gruppe or even Staffel dishonest isn't really paying justice to the honest guys, and even Staffel that is working the system may have honest guys. I find that the only way to determine who's dishonest is to match claims/losses over a long period, and knowing exactly who's claiming, and who's in the air even.

But I did hear somewhere that JG 5 considered itself abandoned, and being given not quite the best aircraft, therefore they made excessive claims just to spite. Usually the biggest over-claimers are people with influence i.e the leaders. But we must be sure about the Sowiet losses before making judgement.
One obvious exception is Heinrich Bartels who stands out because unlike most who cannot carry on bad habits with honest units he did within JG 27, how exactly he got his claims confirmed I have not yet established. But remember the four JG 27 pilots caught not just over-claiming, but claiming even though not actually having made combat, somebody somewhere must have made the first suggestion amongst them. With Bartels I am assuming he cajoled a subordinate into it.

I wonder if anybody else can forward a case such as Schuck where they end-up with en-mass confirmations of previously unconfirmed "kills". Generally ground witnesses usually do not confirm a claim. Yet, Johannes Wiese had many claims confirmed without witnesses as he often flew alone as the Stab, though I do consider him an honest guy, perhaps he was known to be trusted or had cameras fitted or something. Don't forget that in the East your claim usually came down behind Sowiet lines, and thus could not be investigated. In the west the crash-sites were generally in the position to be investigated, though many of JG 2's were over the sea, and thus impossible to investigate, and they were the JG 5 of the West!

Seems then that Schuck may have lost his last flugbuch anyway. Hopefully it may turn-up someday when somebody clears-out an attic somewhere, but also it would be evidence against the thief, so may have been destroyed.

Kind Regards

Johannes