date format

[John Beaman]

In recent weeks, we have seen some varying date formats on posts. Let me plead once again for everyone to use a uniform date format on the various forums. There are variants all over the world, using just numbers. The simplest way to do this is to use the DD-MM-YYYY, as in:

15-Apr-1945

Hey, it is only a few more key strokes!

[Larry deZeng]

45/04/08


I think this format, or 45-04-08, was required in the old Microsoft Access programming software from 15 years ago? Don't Perry and Morrison use this format in their data base, or at least used to? Virtually every country, except the Americans, of course, and excluding the U.S. military, use the logical linear progression day-month-year. Some day, long after I'm gone, the U.S. will join the rest of the world and convert to metric and this form of writing dates.

L.

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear John and Larry,

We've had this discussion before. The dating convention used by the individual is what it is. Each of us may have created a massive data base using whatever we prefer. On the U.S. side of the pond, as you point out Larry, we go month-day-year. In GB and Europe, you go day-month-year. And, as Larry has pointed out, some go year-month-day. It won't change.

So, one has to hope that, amongst the dates given in a data set that there is at least one date where the number 13 or higher exists, which then provides the key to the Enigma cypher. John, the example of 15-04-45 would clearly provide the author's dating convention.

If there is a question, someone can ask for clarification.

Unfortunately, GB uses both 15/04/45 and 15-04-45 and the U.S. uses 4/15/45 and 04-15-45. Both the U.S. and GB use 15 Apr. 1945 and the U.S. in addition, actually its standard, uses Apr. 15, 1945. I'd say that U.S. use of 15 Apr. 1945 would be pretty much restricted to the military or government.

The one convention, at least up to now, that is unique is the European 15.4.45, although some advertisers here in the U.S. have decided that the dot convention just looks neat and different, resulting in 4.15.45. Hopefully, this is just a passing fad. 15.4.45 also takes up the least amount of type space.

Regards,
Richard

[Nick Beale]

Unfortunately, GB uses both 15/04/45 and 15-04-45

You rarely see the second of those; much more common is 15.04.45; some Luftwaffe documents use 15.IV.45 (Roman numeral for the month).

It does seem to make sense that if we are discussing events in Europe, we use a European format of day/month/year.

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Nick,

For the reason you cite, I sometimes use the dot convention, especially if mailing to someone in Europe. That said, my guess is that there are a whole lot of us from the U.S. and, although the U.S. government has dabled in trying to get us to go metric, it hasn't taken. So, it is what it is.

Fortunately, 99+% of what we write here is in English. But, we have a whole lot of members who don't have English as their primary language, but have either learned it well or try as best they can to write here in broken English. Just imagine the mess we would really be in if everyone wrote in their native tongue!!!

The irony is even greater, as we are discussing historical events in Germany where English was certainly not the native tongue. We even have documents written in Sütterlin or a basterdized version thereof and need to come hat in hand to those that actually understand this very old version of German.

Put into perspective, what date convention is used is an annoyance, one we can certainly live with. For those willing to make the effort to be better understood in this regard, we should be grateful. If a scan of the original German document is provided, we know automatically that it follows the day-month-year convention.

Regards,
Richard

[SES]

Just a thought. There is NATO standard nn AAA nnnn like 8 MAY 1945 which is clear and unambiguous, but if you create a spreadsheet and want to be able to sort your data by date the EU standard yyyymmdd is the only viable option.
Bregds
SES

[G.R.Morrison]

This reply is merely to 'defend the honor of ancient databases.' We've always used day/month/year (and when first begun in the 1980s, it was on an extinct Apple platform, before Access).

Usually, if I'm responding to an inquiry, I'll write-out the month to lessen confusion. I also follow the German convention of 'Zeit vor Ort,' so when something occurred appears before the location.

BTW, if you've been missing Jim's replies lately, it's because he's been swamped with work.

GRM

[John Beaman]

Guys, thanks for all the input and ideas for date formats. My actual point is that pure numeric formats regardless of which sequence/format they follow can still lead to confusion. Eg: 11-4-43. Is this Nov 4 or April 11. That's why, in order to cover all EU, NA, SEA, etc. conventions, we could use an actual month name--eg., Nov, etc. That removes all confusion whether you do it Nov-4-43, 43-Nov-4 or whatever.

I do not think we will get every one on this board to use the same total numeric format, per se, so this might be the best format to work towards. Using a month name is only one more keystroke!

As for the US and metric, I would love it, but the US Congress rejected a change prior to the NAFTA and WTA agreements. Now, after approving these agreements, that we are in "worldwide trading", it amazes me that we are not metric. All manufacturers that export are metric, and to work on my lawn mower I must have metric tools--do not ask me why we have not changed--stupid and education? Its not like we are not familiar with metric. In the '50s and '60s we learned in high school and in university. Many of our athletic competitions, swimming, track, etc. have been metric for years. Frankly, I am not sure who is still fighting this.

[Revi16]

Count yourselves lucky for being historians of earth wars!

Stardate 41153.7 http://trekguide.com/Stardates.htm

[Nick Beale]

Frankly, I am not sure who is still fighting this.

As allies of Revolutionary France (the people who gave us the metric system) it's surprising the USA didn't change over 200 years ago.

Meanwhile in Britain we're officially metric apart from miles (too many roadsigns to change), miles per hour (so car speeds relate to the road signs) and pints (for milk and beer but pretty much any other liquid is now metric). Imperial measurements persist in popular use just because so many people grew up with them and automatically think in those terms.