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  #111  
Old 13th November 2005, 03:07
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Brian,

the following JPEG is a list of most of the RAF Bomber Command night losses (both missing and a/c written off), between 1st Jan-17th Mar 1945, that have been attributed in one way or another to "friendly fire". NEA = "Not Due to Enemy Action", a term used in official RAF records. Some of the losses have disputed causes depending on the source used.
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  #112  
Old 13th November 2005, 22:01
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Franek, Turbo and Rod

Super stuff - no, Franek, not disappointed - delighted!

Cheers
Brian
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  #113  
Old 15th November 2005, 21:36
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi guys

One of my earlier requests concerned a USAAF 'light' aircraft that crashed at Le Mans having been hit by friendly fire on 22/8/44, with two or three deaths.

Could this in fact have been UC-61 43-14844 of the 27thFG that crashed on 23/8/44? I believe MACR 8340 covers this incident but I do not have any of these reports.

Cheers
Brian
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  #114  
Old 15th November 2005, 21:58
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi guys

I hope one of our French experts may be able to help me with this query:

On 5/8/44 a Boston of 342 Sqn crashed at Perrieres near Falise after being hit by flak. An article in ICARE No.92 (pages 122-124) implies that a Mosquito strafed the wreck, either deliberately or in error for a German machine. The French crew (Pierre, Cornement, Dumont and Ricardou) were, I believe, killed.
Can anyone help even perhaps with a translation?

Cheers
Brian

Last edited by Brian; 16th November 2005 at 13:52.
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  #115  
Old 16th November 2005, 03:01
Six Nifty .50s Six Nifty .50s is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
Hi guys

One of my earlier requests concerned a USAAF 'light' aircraft that crashed at Le Mans having been hit by friendly fire on 22/8/44, with two or three deaths.

Could this in fact have been UC-61 43-14844 of the 27thFG that crashed on 23/8/44? I believe MACR 8340 covers this incident but I do not have any of these reports.

Cheers
Brian
Don't know about that one, but flying in a small, slow-moving plane over the front lines took a lot of courage. And there were dangers other than roving fighters and antiaircraft batteries. U.S. Army forward observers flew in light aircraft and often in close proximity of friendly artillery barrages. The trajectories of field guns varied widely and saturated the entire airspace covered by artillery spotters, so there was no alternative but to accept the risk. The expanded use of radar sensitive proximity fuses by artillery units further increased the hazards to low flying aircraft...

July 1943
During the fighting in Sicily, a US Army L-4 Cub was shot down by an 155mm ‘Long Tom’ artillery shell that hit the aircraft while in flight; the only round fired by the gun that day. See p.73, Wakefield, Ken and Wesley Kyle. The Fighting Grasshoppers: US Liaison Aircraft Operations in Europe, 1942-1945 (Stillwater, MN: Specialty Press, 1990).

June 1944
U.S. Army L-4 Cub was shot down by an 81mm mortar shell that inadvertantly struck the aircraft while in flight near the Normandy beaches. Crewed by Lts. McNage and Wood from the 87th Armored Field Artillery Battalion. In July 1944, two more observation aircraft were lost under similar circumstances. See p.71, Wakefield, Ken and Wesley Kyle. The Fighting Grasshoppers: US Liaison Aircraft Operations in Europe, 1942-1945 (Stillwater, MN: Specialty Press, 1990).

November 1944
U.S. Army L-4 Cub from the 202nd Armored Field Artillery Battalion was shot down by a shell (fired by own unit) that hit the aircraft while in flight near Baccarat. Lt. Allan Hathaway was killed. See p.97, Wakefield, Ken and Wesley Kyle. The Fighting Grasshoppers: US Liaison Aircraft Operations in Europe, 1942-1945 (Stillwater, MN: Specialty Press, 1990).

March 1945
US Army artillery observers Lts. Bernhardt and Barrow of the 87th Infantry Division were killed when their L-4 Piper Cub was hit by an outbound artillery shell near Limburg. Also, S/Sgt. Thomas K. Turner and Lt. Leroy C. Stevens of 58th Armored Field Artillery Battalion were forced down when their L-4 was hit by an artillery round near Stolberg. See p.136, Wakefield, Ken and Wesley Kyle. The Fighting Grasshoppers: US Liaison Aircraft Operations in Europe, 1942-1945 (Stillwater, MN: Specialty Press, 1990).

1945 (precise date unknown)
L-4 Piper Cub flown by Capt. Francis P. Farrel (Air Officer 3rd Armored Division Artillery) was shot down and killed by American AA fire over Stolberg, Germany. See p.97, Division Committee. Spearhead in the West, 1941-45: The Third Armored Division (Frankfurt am Main-Schwanheim: F.J. Henrich, 1945).

Pictured below is Lt. General George S. Patton sitting in the backseat of an L-5, similar to the aircraft he was aboard when attacked by an RAF Spitfire in April 1945. Click on the photo to enlarge.


Attachment 286
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  #116  
Old 16th November 2005, 13:05
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

To help with the last post and try to find the precise dates:

According to the American Battle Monuments Commssion:

_ 2nd Lt Charles H. Wodd, Jr., 87th Armored Field Artillery Battalion, was killed on 27 June 1944 and rests in Normandy American Cemetery, St. Laurent-sur-Mer, France.

_ 1st Lt Godfrey H. Bernhardt and 1st Lt Douglas D. Barrow, 336th Field Artillery Battalion, 87th Infantry Division, were killed on 28 March 1945 and rest in Lorraine American Cemetery, St. Avold, France

_ Capt. Francis P. Farrel, Division Artillery, 3rd Armored Division, was killed on 10 December 1944 and is buried in Henri-Chapelle American Cemetery, Henri-Chapelle, Belgium.
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  #117  
Old 16th November 2005, 13:53
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Thanks Six Nifty and Laurent - more useful details.

Cheers
Brian
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  #118  
Old 16th November 2005, 19:29
BABIN BABIN is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
Hi guys

I hope one of our French experts may be able to help me with this query:

On 5/8/44 a Boston of 342 Sqn crashed at Perrieres near Falise after being hit by flak. An article in ICARE No.92 (pages 122-124) implies that a Mosquito strafed the wreck, either deliberately or in error for a German machine. The French crew (Pierre, Cornement, Dumont and Ricardou) were, I believe, killed.
Can anyone help even perhaps with a translation?

Cheers
Brian

Hello Brian,

Regarding the fate of the crew of this Boston (which was part of the "Lorraine" French Sqdn) :

- S/C Louis RICARDOU (gunner) : killed in the crash
- S/C Hubert CORNEMENT (navigator) : badly wounded in the crash ; lying on the ground, close to the wreck, he was murdered by the SS (probably SS from the 12nd Hitlerjungend) on the morning of 5th of August
- Adj. François DUMONT (W/O) : only groggy in the crash, but slightly wounded on 5th of August ... by the straffing of a Mosquito on the wreck ; he could join the American lines on 17th of August.
- S/C Pierre PIERRE (pilot) : seriously wounded in the crash, he could join the American lines on 15th of August.

I extracted this info from the French magazine "ICARE" n° 176.

Au revoir

Pierre
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  #119  
Old 16th November 2005, 22:29
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Many thanks Pierre

I wonder why the Mosquito strafed the wreck, and which unit it was from?

Cheers
Brian
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  #120  
Old 17th November 2005, 03:10
Six Nifty .50s Six Nifty .50s is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

A new one for me:

April 1945
RAF Mosquito (85 Squadron) damaged by RAF Lancaster:

"... It is perhaps appropriate that the last nighfighter pilot to become an ace belonged to one of the longest serving and most successful nightfighting units of them all. No 85 Sqn's H B Thomas had scored his first victory in October 1943, and he finally claimed his fifth victim on 8 April 1945 when he downed a Ju 88 west of Lutzendorf ... Hugh Thomas was shot down by an enemy nightfighter five days later after one engine of his Mosquito had been knocked out in error by a Lancaster gunner. Baling out, he became a PoW, but sadly his navigator, Flg Off C B Hamilton, landed in the sea and was lost ..."

See p.74-75, Thomas, Andrew. Mosquito Aces of WW2 (Oxford, UK: Osprey Publishing, 2005).


By the way, last time I forgot to ask if you know who shot down Spitfire AB806 on July 1st, 1942.
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