Researching the DB605 DM

[schwarze-man]

Hi everyone,
I am researching the late series DB 605 engines. One particularly frustrating difficulty is getting original detail for the engine listed in the Bf 109 K-4 Flugzeug-Handbuch issued Nov. 1944. That engine was the DB 605 DM. I have not found the Motor-Handbuch DB 605 DM that is listed in the Flugzeug-Handbuch. So, I am asking if anyone has a copy , or a lead on any original material for the DB 605 DM? I would be grateful for any help in this .
Best wishes,

Eng

[Kurfürst]

Hi SM!

I think the search is in vain, from the various papers I am quite certain there was no separate ‘DM’ (DB, DC, DMO etc). The only engine out there was the 605D, which got different designations late in 1944 as boost levels changes from 1,75 (DM), 1,8 (DB) 1,9 and 1,98 ata (DC). These were just designations for different setups of the same engine. Same for the late DB 605 G/AM/AB and GS/AS/ASB/ASC. So what you are looking for is probably an early 605D manual.

[schwarze-man]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Hi SM!

I think the search is in vain, from the various papers I am quite certain there was no separate ‘DM’ (DB, DC, DMO etc). The only engine out there was the 605D, which got different designations late in 1944 as boost levels changes from 1,75 (DM), 1,8 (DB) 1,9 and 1,98 ata (DC). These were just designations for different setups of the same engine. Same for the late DB 605 G/AM/AB and GS/AS/ASB/ASC. So what you are looking for is probably an early 605D manual.

Hi Kurfürst,

Thank you for your post. Interestingly, Daimler-Benz documentation does regularly refer to "the DB 605 D" even when they are commenting about specific versions of the motor. In fact, this goes right back to the early days of the proposed DB 605 D/E/F in 1941 that was not like any production DB 605 D!
There are DB engineering documents that specify the different versions that were very similar, the D, then DM, then DB and DC. I have actually recovered an original Baumusterschild that is stamped DB 605 DB and I have seen a genuine one with DB 605 DM0. That is a zero at the end, showing the Zero production series.
The reason that I am hopeful that a DB 605 DM Engine manual exists is that Messerschmitt refers to that document in the Bf 109 K-4 aircraft manual. The DB 605 DM was produced from August 1944, and I hope that Daimler-Benz were able to print the documentation. OTOH, I doubt that the DB and DC versions were documented correctly, probably similar situation for all versions after late '44.
I do hope to post more on the DB 605 D development from 1941 onwards in the future.

Cheers

SM

[schwarze-man]

Hi again Kurfurst,
I read your post again. Thanks for the thoughts. So, I wonder, are you trying to say that you know of a DB 605 D Flugmotor Handbuch? I agree that this could exist as, there were advanced plans to produce the the basic DB 605 D in early 1944. If this is so, I would be very interested!

Cheers

SM

[edwest2]

Gentlemen,

I suggest you contact Calum Douglas about this matter through his site.

https://www.calum-douglas.com/technical-intelligence/

[schwarze-man]

Originally Posted by edwest2

Gentlemen,

I suggest you contact Calum Douglas about this matter through his site.

https://www.calum-douglas.com/technical-intelligence/

Many thanks for your thoughts Ed!
Yes, Calum is a good friend and we cooperate a lot. The 605D is a pet project of mine and I have a lot of original material that will be published. The Motor Handbuch (any DB605D Handbuch!) is a particular void in the documentation, and I am casting my net wide to find it, or similar documentation.
Another visit to the Mercedes-Benz Archiv at Stuttgart is possible but, that is quite a big deal and I am not strongly hopeful about success there. If any 605D handbook was produced, I suspect there is some chance it exists in some private hands somewhere. If anyone can help, just post or PM me please.

Cheers

SM

[harrison987]

There is no such thing as a DB605 D Handbook (or even a part list).

For example, the DB605 Handbuch, which just a slightly updated DB601 Handbook

There is one handbook that covers the DB601 as well as the DB605 A thru F...but again, it is just an updated DB601 Handbook...nothing new or even interesting.

There is a DB605 A-C Parts List...but again, just an updated DB601.

When the only difference is MW50, the addition of a DB603 Supercharger, and some fine tuning for increased output, there would be no need for an additional handbook.

Most likely just an addendum was added to go WITH the DB605 Handbook and parts list.

[schwarze-man]

Originally Posted by harrison987

There is no such thing as a DB605 D Handbook (or even a part list).

For example, the DB605 Handbuch, which just a slightly updated DB601 Handbook

There is one handbook that covers the DB601 as well as the DB605 A thru F...but again, it is just an updated DB601 Handbook...nothing new or even interesting.

There is a DB605 A-C Parts List...but again, just an updated DB601.

When the only difference is MW50, the addition of a DB603 Supercharger, and some fine tuning for increased output, there would be no need for an additional handbook.

Most likely just an addendum was added to go WITH the DB605 Handbook and parts list.

Hi Mike,
Thanks for your input. However, you are mistaken in many ways. Your general stance seems to be that there is little of interest, but that is your opinion. To me, that seems like saying all Merlin Handbooks are much the same, or R-2800 etc.
You bothered to write your negative post so, I will correct the points that you made.
There may have been a DB 605 D Handbook, Messerschmitt refer to it.
There is a specific DB 605 D Parts list, 158 densely packed pages.
There are several versions of the DB 601/605 Handbooks that cover the different versions: 601A, 601N&P, 601E-G, 605A-C, 605A-B.
The "DB601 as well as the DB605 A thru F" document is a technical information work that is actually, DB601E-G, Q u. R, DB605A-F dated 10.41, that you say is uninteresting.
There are two different DB 605 A partslists, DB 605 A-C and DB 605 A-B. Each is specific and accurate for different build standards of the DB 605.
I am sorry, I cannot correct this sentence " When the only difference is MW50, the addition of a DB603 Supercharger, and some fine tuning for increased output, there would be no need for an additional handbook" as that would require the writing of a Handbuch.
So, overall, thanks for trying to help.

SM

[harrison987]

Yes...but ALL the handbooks and manuals you refer to are the same, and based on ONE engine - the DB601.

Each manual and handbook was just slightly "updated"...as the suffixes changed. Part numbers were carried over, and duplicated.

There were almost NO specific DB605 D parts, so the only manuals that exist are just updated slightly from the 605.

I would suggest you compare the manuals and parts lists you are referring to - you will see little to no difference.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by schwarze-man

Hi again Kurfurst,
I read your post again. Thanks for the thoughts. So, I wonder, are you trying to say that you know of a DB 605 D Flugmotor Handbuch? I agree that this could exist as, there were advanced plans to produce the the basic DB 605 D in early 1944. If this is so, I would be very interested!

Cheers

SM

Unfortunately no, I am only aware of the (Entwurf) 9-605 DB u. DC. Ausgabe C, 1 Dezember 1944 and the 'Kennzeichen des Baumusters DB605 D 5 Dezember 1944'. I am afraid I have never seen a complete 'Handbuch' or 'Motorenkarte in the manner of those produced for the 605A series.

I know of course of the early DM document referenced in the K-4 Handbuch but have never seen it myself.

There is also a hint from MTTAG record of meeting from 20 December 1944 bei DB-UT, which instructs crews to mark engines set to 1.8 ata with a big white 'B' next to the D letter on the Kurbelgehäuse, and a big white 'C' in case of 1.98ata setting. In case of changing the manifold pressure the markings are to be correspondingly modified. Also some GLC datasheets from show only '605D', next to be both 1.8/1.98 ata power curves.

So I am fairly certain the entire D series is the same engine, which saw some minimal changes, boosts.

Herr Baumgartl has an interesting reference in his book 'Lehrunterlangen für die Baumuster DB 601 E-G u. 605 A-D, Flieger-tech. Schule 3 München 67, T.S. 3-2024a, Teil 1. Baumuster Beschreibung für die DB 601 E-G, DB 605 A-B, AS-BS, AM-ASM, D-E, DM. from DBAG Flugmotoren Bd. 149.' This seems to be a rather complete, common manual for these engines on various technical aspects as he references it a lot.

I can't recommend highly enough getting Herr Baumgartl's book as he has done excellent research. The chapters 34-35 of 50 pages is exclusively dedicated to DB 605D development and improvement of performance, which I am sure you would find highly interesting.