Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19th March 2020, 10:52
David2703 David2703 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 13
David2703 is on a distinguished road
Ju-88T-2/3 NM+HQ

Hi,

In Manfred Griehl „Junkers - Flugzeuge seit 1915“ (Motorbuch Verlag) there is a photo on p91 of what is claimed to be a Ju-88T-2 NM+HQ at the edge of the Alps on 2 July 1944. Only the letters H and Q are clearly visible in large black letters. Source is given as Schubert. Camouflage is black undersides and a light cloud-like pattern on top.

Can anyone identify this aircraft and the unit? The geschwader code NM does not seem to belong to any of the regular fighting units.
Also, I am not sure it really is a T-2 given that it has Junkers engines.


I would be happy to post a picture of the page if that is allowed.

Thanks,
David
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19th March 2020, 11:03
Nick Beale's Avatar
Nick Beale Nick Beale is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Exeter, England
Posts: 4,487
Nick Beale will become famous soon enough
Re: Ju-88T-2/3 NM+HQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by David2703 View Post
Hi,

I would be happy to post a picture of the page if that is allowed.

Thanks,
David
Yes it is allowed, you would be posting for a legitimate purpose (learning).
__________________
Nick Beale
http://www.ghostbombers.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19th March 2020, 11:23
David2703 David2703 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 13
David2703 is on a distinguished road
Re: Ju-88T-2/3 NM+HQ

Please find the photo under this link please:

https://ibb.co/rpszLP6
Attached Images
File Type: jpg B90AC914-6370-408A-9952-92BA7BC31726.jpg (188.9 KB, 104 views)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19th March 2020, 11:42
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,509
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: Ju-88T-2/3 NM+HQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by David2703 View Post
Please find the photo under this link please:

https://ibb.co/rpszLP6
David

The NM is not a Geschwader code but the two first digits in its Stammkennzeichnung. Griehl most likely received the information either directly from this "Schubert" or perhaps from photos/logbooks once belonging to that man.

It is not possible by simply reading this code to know which unit the aircraft belonged to.

We have a number of specialists in both WNr and STKZ so maybe one of them knows more. All I can say is that the NM+H(A) and up seems to have been assigned to Junkers and the model 88 (NM+HA was a model Ju 88S)

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19th March 2020, 14:00
RT RT is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 3,290
RT is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Ju-88T-2/3 NM+HQ

Usually the planes of the NM+H. serie are documented as S-3 models Wn 330167 to 330192 , nd there are only T-1 nd T-3 , T-2 model is non-existing

S-1/T-1 used Bmw 801 motors S-3/T-3 Jumo 213 motors

Production time hv to be beg. sommer 1944 nd made by Henschel , equiped with Jumo 213 of the 1021/521... block produced by "jfr" not later than june 44
This serie hs been used by LG1/KG66/KG30


But as quite all from NM+HA to NM+HL are documented nd after nil !! possibly remains that part of them hv never been produced or...


Regarding the code in the picture, nd as we only see HQ, I don't know where is coming the NM added by Griehl/Schubert, BG+HQ/S-3 could be an alternate but doubts surround this code, an other countender S-3/PY+HQ..

Possibly as , Peter is not reachable, Ed could cfm which model shows the picture S-3 or T-3 ??


Rémi
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 19th March 2020, 17:53
edNorth edNorth is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,990
edNorth is on a distinguished road
Re: Ju-88T-2/3 NM+HQ

No confirmation - but opinon - it possibly can be Ju 88 T-3 ... or S-3
Now for a unpopular statement: Not everything published be correct.
This and several other authors seem have written beyond confirmed.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19th March 2020, 22:25
Simon Schatz's Avatar
Simon Schatz Simon Schatz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 289
Simon Schatz is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Ju-88T-2/3 NM+HQ

Hi folks,
in 2014 Peter Achs posted following at the German aviation forum "Flugzeugforum.de". https://www.flugzeugforum.de/threads...a.77042/page-2
  • Es gab keinen Staffelbuchstaben Q, so dass die Maschine noch ihr Stammkennzeichen trägt
  • Das Flugzeug besitzt noch den original Werksanstrich von Henschel/Schönefeld.
  • Demnach könnte es sich um eine werksneue Ju 88 T-3 handeln, die noch ihr Stammkennzeichen hat. Es gibt eine Ju 88 T-3 NM+HQ (W-Nr. 330223)
  • Von dieser Ju 88 habe ich leider nur einen Überführungsflug vom FlÜG 1 am 02.07.44 von Staaken nach Brunnthal über München/Riem. Weiterer Verbleib ist mir unbekannt
  • Zwei weitere T-3 in dem Werknummernbereich (330222 und 330227) flogen bei der 4.(F)/122 als F6+HM und F6+FM.

- There was no staffel letter Q, so that the machine still bears its STKZ

- The aircraft still has the original factory paint from Henschel / Schönefeld.

- Accordingly, it could be a brand new Ju 88 T-3, which still has its STKZ. There is a Ju 88 T-3 NM + HQ (W-Nr. 330223)

- From this Ju 88 I unfortunately only have a transfer flight from FlÜG 1 on 07/02/44 from Staaken to Brunnthal via Munich / Riem. Further whereabouts are unknown to me

- Two more T-3s in the range number (330222 and 330227) flew on the 4th (F) / 122 as F6 + HM and F6 + FM.
__________________
Luftwaffe Aviation Art
made by Simon Schatz
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19th March 2020, 22:53
RT RT is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 3,290
RT is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Ju-88T-2/3 NM+HQ

Seems Peter made some mistakes in the past...
Rémi
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 20th March 2020, 10:47
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,509
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: Ju-88T-2/3 NM+HQ

Rémi (Ed)

May I ask exactly where Peter made his mistakes back in 2014?
Everyone on the forum are no experts on the Ju 88 production as such.

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 20th March 2020, 12:08
David2703 David2703 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 13
David2703 is on a distinguished road
Re: Ju-88T-2/3 NM+HQ

Thanks for the info everyone. It seems that this probably really is NM+HQ in stkz. on delivery to a fighting unit somewhere.

Does anyone know if stammkenzeichen were usually applied in large (early-war style) letters or did they follow the practice of applying the first two letters very small?

On a sidenote, this aircraft wears a different camo pattern from the one posted by Junkers-Peter on flugzeugforum, albeit it is still a very similar style.

Thanks,
David
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ju 88 C/R Daylight Operations Chris Goss Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 6 17th May 2019 17:11
List of US Air Force stations in UK WW2 Bruce Dennis Allied and Soviet Air Forces 7 4th December 2018 13:27
11.04.1944 Bay of Biscay battle ZG1 vs. RAS 151 sqn 248 sqn FrankieS Allied and Soviet Air Forces 10 24th October 2012 19:44
Ju188 lost in France Eric Larger Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 16 15th December 2011 23:47
Athens-Tatoi Andy Mitchell Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 22 30th July 2010 18:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net