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  #1  
Old 31st March 2005, 21:37
Von Alles Von Alles is offline
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The darkest color : 81 or 83 ?

Hello,
I am reading Mr MERRICK's book and I have the folowing question :
on a black and white picture, what is the darkest color : 81 or 83 ?
Thank you to all
Von Alles
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Old 1st April 2005, 11:49
Antti Antti is offline
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Re: The darkest color : 81 or 83 ?

Hi!

In JaPo book "Bf 109 K, camouflage and markings", there is a photo where different RLM colours are compared in B/W photos, taken with two different films. Both shades are quite dark with a small difference.

In real life photos you cannot say for sure which is which. It seems that 81 are lighter and 83 is usually darker. But it is not so obvious always.

I hope this helps...

Antti
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Old 1st April 2005, 12:10
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ChrisMAg2 ChrisMAg2 is offline
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Re: The darkest color : 81 or 83 ?

To many options make it indeed very diificult to decide on what grey equals which color:
Exposing, developing and printing of a photo and the exact film sensitivity make it impossible to definetely decide that.
Also the light condition during that the photo was made and the color/ paint-condition itself are of a certain importance.
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Old 1st April 2005, 16:31
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Ruy Horta Ruy Horta is offline
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Re: The darkest color : 81 or 83 ?

D'Amico/Valentini touch the interesting subject of using yellow filters to improve contrast on B&W film, they illustrate this by including a rare with and without filter photo, the resulting effect is quite stunning.

Slightly off topic, but I did not remember ever seeing such a good example.

p.12

Aeronautica Nazionale Republiccana 1943-1945
A Photographic Analysis through Speculation and Research

Ferdinando D'Amico & Gabriele Valentini
Classic Publications, 2005
1-903223-29-6

Shameless plug for their work, but hey I have Classic stock
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Old 3rd April 2005, 16:06
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Re: The darkest color : 81 or 83 ?

The results would be even more wider spread if you keep in mind that in WW2 two differnt b&w films were still in use: ortho- and panchromatic.
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Old 4th April 2005, 12:42
Primoz Primoz is offline
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Re: The darkest color : 81 or 83 ?

There are some more problems: There seems to have been two shades of RLM 81, the "normal" Braunviolett and a darker chocolate brown. And if you consider the possibility of fading, dirt etc. it's impossible to tell which color looks darker.

It's pretty difficult even if you have color photos. Here's a good example:http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tem=6165909543.
Was the Do 335 painted RLM 81/82 or RLM 70/71 like the He 111 in the background?
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Old 5th April 2005, 21:40
Von Alles Von Alles is offline
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Re: The darkest color : 81 or 83 ?

Thank you to all for your answers.

For Mr MERRICK in his new book, there is no shade variation...?
About the Do 335, I think it is camouflaged in 70/83 (look at the bright green) as its sister ship WkNr 102.
I post this question because I am building a model of Me 262 "yellow 8", 3/Jg 7, WkNr 112385. Mr MERRICK says : 81/83. There are a dark color and a lighter one... Another possibility : a typo error for 81(dark) and 82 (light), a common pattern for Me 262.

Good night and thank you again for your help.
Von Alles
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