Nightfighters and gun cameras

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Fellow Researchers,

It seems like a non sequitur, gun cameras on nightfighters. However, as some of you know, I've been trying to identify the equipment suspended from the canopy on the Me 262B-1a/U1 interim nightfighter. The equipment appears to be made up of three separate apparatuses. The rear one appears to be a Pielschreiber 120a, but the other two, up to now, seem to be shrouded in mystery.

A couple of days ago, a fellow named Dennis Lucas approached me trying to identify a Siemens motion picture camera he had in his possession. It was certainly not a BSK 16, but more box shaped, like the old Brownie box camera. Comparing it to the coarse photos I have of the forward apparatus in the B-1a/U1, there is an uncanny similarity. As viewed from the front, the B-1a/U1 apparatus has a bright spot on it, which always made me think it was likely a lense. Now comes along this new evidence and I'm really trying to connect the dots.

The camera is remotely electrically controlled, if not driven, and is clearly intended to be mounted. An electrical cover bears the number Fl 32624. Unfortunately, the camera nameplate has been removed, so I don't know the model.

The question is: Does anyone know of cameras/gun cameras being tried on nightfighters, even if just on an experimental basis?

Regards,
Richard

[mhuxt]

They were certainly used on Mosquito nightfighters, if that's any help.

Cheers,

Mark

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Mark,

That's a bit of encouragement. Do you know how they were used, considering the lack of light issue?

Regards,
Richard

[George Hopp]

The Me 262 was planned to carry a BSK 16 camera in the fuselage extreme nose. So, it would probably would not be in the rear cockpit hood unless it was placed there to photograph something else.

Regarding your friend's camera: In fact, the BSK 16 did look a great deal like an old Brownie movie camera. But, for gun camera work it would have a sighting image projector screwed onto the front of the camera in front of the camera lens.

[mhuxt]

Hi Richard:

The Mosquito combat reports I've seen generally say "cine camera automatically exposed", or something similar, and occasionally refer to the pilot also having filmed burning wreckage on the ground to support the claim. The pilot accounts do sometimes mention however that nothing useful was recorded.

Here's one example I've seen, which from memory records the destruction of an Me 110 nightfighter (colourised, scanned, out of focus, but you'll get the idea):

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P...2.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

I'm sure I've seen pics of 110G snouts which clearly show the camera opening.

I don't know if special film was used or not - I would assume that demonstrating the flashes from cannon strikes and the light from burning targets would have sufficed.

Cheers,

Mark

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear George & Mark,

The camera is more squat than a BSK 16. The installation I'm talking about would have been in the canopy area of the Me 262B-1a/U1 interim nightfighter. As the nose of this aircraft was taken up with radar equipment, the canopy area would have made sense for an alternative place for a gun camera. Even if there had been room to fit the camera in the nose, the film likely would have been fried by the radar.

Mark, thanks for the example. It does help.

Guys, I know this is a bit of a stretch, but something was mounted suspended within the canopy and this camera looks like a fairly decent match. Obviously, this was very late in the war and they could have been trying about anything.

Dennis said it came from a jet. The only other candidate I think would be an Ar 234. What sort of camera equipment, other than for recon., did it carry?

Regards,
Richard

[edwest]

Dear Richard,


Here is a web site for someone who deals in vintage cameras, both still and motion picture. He may be able to help or suggest a catalog or reference book. His e-mail is near the top of the page. http://www.xs4all.nl/~wichm/cinelisc.html#S


If you scroll down the alphabetical listing to Siemens & Halske AG, you'll see a few items in blue, which you can click on to see the actual camera.



Regards,
Ed

[mhuxt]

Well,

I'm going to pass into the realms of the speculative now, but is there any chance it is:

- Infrared? (I "think I saw somewhere" that some Luftwaffe nightfighters did have such equipment)
- Night glasses? (fixed to enable a steady look at whatever's ahead, without taking hands off the controls?)
- Some kind of IFF interrogator? (Again, I've read that one item in the box of tricks in Mossie nightfighters was an apparatus to trigger some kind of light, perhaps ultraviolet, hence the need for a special lens, in the tail of friendly bombers).

I'm really out of my dept with all of that, just hoping to stimulate debate.

Cheers,

Mark

[George Hopp]

If you take a look at the location of the items in the hood of the interim night fighter, in Vol 3 of "Me 262" by Richard Smith and Eddie Creek, you will see that the field of view of a camera in that location to the front would be very poor (drawing, pg. 476, 488). You will also note the glass cover for the camera in the nose of V056 on pages 491-496. And, pgs. 470-472 show that the plumbing for the FuG 218 radar used by the Me 262, did not use the nose cone unit in which the camera would have been installed.


Mark,
The Brits had IFF interrogation, but the Germans did not. The Germans were testing infra-red gear, but I don't think it was operational.

Oh yes, from the Martini interrogations, the following was the equipment in the Me 262 night fighter as part of the Emergency Program: FuG 16ZY (to be replaced by FuG 24 in August 45), FuG 125, FuG 120k, FuG 25a, FuG 101a, FuG 350, and the rest either new requirements or future equipment: FuG 29, and FuG 218 (to be replaced by FuG 245). This report was prepared in Mar 45, and was already slightly out-of-date at war's end as the FuG 218 was being installed in night fighters before war's end.

[mhuxt]

Thanks George:

As I say, purely speculative. Pretty sure I saw a photo of an infra-red apparatus in (of all things) a French book on the NJ which I bought off a bookseller next to the Pont-Neuve when last I was in Paris. (May God have mercy on me, I took my wife to Chanel headquarters, and may God have mercy on her, she didn't buy anything...)

I owe you a snail mail...

Cheers,

Mark