Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16th February 2018, 14:01
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 221
Karoband is on a distinguished road
Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?

Good Morning,

Probably when Oblt. Gunter Korn flew W.Nr. 140608 on April 22 and 25, 1945 he, out of habit, wrote in his flugbuch the "T1" code of his old unit, 3.(F)/Aufkl. Gr. 10.

And when a British mechanic gave the data for VK880 as "T1+GL" 140008, he was just being careless.

I would like to nail down the identity of this aircraft captured at Grove, but no matter how hard I stare, I cannot make out the Geschwader code on pictures of this aircraft.

Can anyone tell me from photographic evidence which it is?

Thanks in advance,

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16th February 2018, 19:13
Delmenhorst Delmenhorst is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 382
Delmenhorst is on a distinguished road
Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?

Hi Jim
There is no Geschwader code painted on the fuselage - only the´+ GL
Carsten
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16th February 2018, 19:56
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 221
Karoband is on a distinguished road
Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?

Thank you, Carsten.

How unusual and interesting. This information is very much appreciated.

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17th February 2018, 08:00
ju55dk's Avatar
ju55dk ju55dk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 689
ju55dk
Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?

It's T1+GL. Has been discussed on this board before. Just do a search.

Junker
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17th February 2018, 11:36
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 221
Karoband is on a distinguished road
Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?

Hi Junker,

Would you be so kind as to post a link to the thread you are alluding to? I'm having trouble finding it.

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17th February 2018, 12:00
ju55dk's Avatar
ju55dk ju55dk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 689
ju55dk
Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?

IT's a long time ago. So you just have to look through all Ar 234 treads, or postings by me.

Junker
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 18th February 2018, 03:36
David E. Brown's Avatar
David E. Brown David E. Brown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bedford, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 191
David E. Brown
Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?

Jim,

As part of my research assisting Phil Butler, I collected and collated images of all the captured Ar234s. At the moment my machine is in the shop having a burnt-out hard drive replaced (having a small portable HD as a daily back-up was a God-send). Once back I will go though my files and comment back if I can add to the discussion.

As Jörn stated, you can find more of this machine by searching his postings, or, do a search for "140608".

Cheers,

David
__________________
"He has all of the virtues I despise and none of the vices I admire." W.S.C.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 18th February 2018, 17:16
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 221
Karoband is on a distinguished road
Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?

Good morning David,

I am sorry for having been obtuse but I had assumed from Jorn's first post that there had been a prior discussion of this topic which I could not find. The search of "140608" resulted in the thread number 13048 in which he ascribes "Ar234 B-2 WNr. 140608 (Air Min 25) T1+GL" as belonging to "Stab FAGr. 1". His sources are "Flugbuch Bauer, Hattan and Korn. Pictures (Tillisch) in my collection. War Prizes by Philip Butler. NA Air 24/1518."

My problem is the "T1". As far as I know, the only unit to use the "T1" code was Aufkl. Gr. 10, and deZeng and Stankey state that Korn was previously in 3.(F)/10. However, 3.(F)/10 using Ju 88D/A-4s in June 1943 was redesignated 1./FAGr. 5 using Ju 290s and Ju 88s and the code "9V'. In February 1945, 1./FAGr. 5 at Quakenbruck became 1./FAGr 1 using Ju88s. At the same time an Einsatzkommando 1./FAGr. 5 continued to exist using Arado Ar 234s and the code "9V". In early May Einsatzkommando 1./FAGr. 5 in Norway became Einsatzkommando 1./FAGr. 1 but too late for the codes of Ar 234 9V+BH and At 234 9V+CH to be changed before the surrender.

http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic.php?p=105599

According to this site, Manfred Griehl in Luftwaffe '45: Letzte Fluge und Projekte (2008) states "#3 (WNr 140608) wurde Mitte April an die 3.(F)/ Aufklarungsgruppe 100 ab gegeben und fiel spatter den Englandern als T9+GL in die Hande."

So, I am curious as to what the photographic evidence says.

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18th February 2018, 17:34
ju55dk's Avatar
ju55dk ju55dk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 689
ju55dk
Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?

As said before the T1+GL is visible in the picture. RAF recorded it as TI+GL. And Korn recorded T1+GL. So it should settle the matter. This discussing keeps pupping up despite the evidence. Please note that it was caotic times for the Luftwaffe in 1945! Griehl has no source for the staement T9+.

Junker
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 18th February 2018, 17:47
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 221
Karoband is on a distinguished road
Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?

Thank you, Junker. That is the statement I was looking for!

Jim
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for information about Ar 234 pilot Hauptmann Miersch / Mierisch Huib Ottens Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 32 11th January 2017 16:02
Athens-Tatoi Andy Mitchell Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 22 30th July 2010 18:45
Ar 240 loss information Pawel Burchard Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 17 28th April 2010 13:00
Arado Ar 234 W.Nr 140492 Chrisyates Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 10 16th August 2009 11:45
Hptm Diether Lukesch KG76 Ar 234 Roger Gaemperle Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 14th January 2006 13:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2007, 12oclockhigh.net