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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#21
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
Hello guys,
Thanks for all these interesting (and much more encouraging!) info: a month of photographed files sounds a lot better than my previous fears. As my keen interest is Venlo A/F in WW-2 in general and the history of the I./NJG 1 and other units operating from 'my' airfield in particular, I can focus on NW-Europe and Germany I guess, thus speeding up the photographing. If I have grown up (an unlikely prospective) I will write a book about this I./NJG 1. All the best, Marcel
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airfield Venlo in WW-2, I./NJG 1, He219-project |
#22
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
At my last stay at NA, I scanned (with a camera) following files
AIR40/2687 and AIR40/2697, both mentioned at Nick Beales page: http://www.ghostbombers.com/various/...tra_3.html#top I have organized each of them as a singel pdf. file. Anyone care for a copy? Olve Dybvig www.luftwaffe.no |
#23
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
Nick, this line caught my eye.
"What you won’t have is Bletchley’s card index, thought to have been destroyed after the war, in which occurrences of names, places units and so on were logged and correlated." Any idea why the card index would have been destroyed? Surely not for security reasons.
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"Somewhere out there is page 6!" "But Emillo you promised ....... it's postpone" ASWWIAH Member |
#24
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
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If there are Me 262's on it, I'd LOVE to see it. |
#25
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
PHP Code:
Churchill was quite clear in his instructions to protect the existance of ULTRA at all costs which ultimately is at the heart of our research problems today. It also gave problems to the Intelligence establishment in the 1950s as the best of the analytical equipment (including Colossus) had been destroyed in the same spirit. The details and references contained in the card index was a 'smoking gun' piece of evidence that the Allies were able to read machine encrypted radio/teletype messages and that was as big an issue in the Cold War as it had been in the Second World War. We now know that the secret was out, but that is hindsight. Hope this helps, Bruce
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http://www.filephotoservice.co.uk/ RESEARCH AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES & OTHER UK INSTITUTIONS |
#26
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
J.O. wrote in part:
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Was this an alibi they were given by the security people and ordered to repeat if asked sensitive questions? Perhaps, but the ULTRA secret had already been in the public domain for 14 or 15 years when I wrote to them, so probably would not have felt it necessary to conceal the truth any longer. But you can make the call. What a shame, huh? What a marvelous historical resource the Air Index would have been because it would have allowed the researcher to go directly and immediately to a card or two covered his/her topic of interest and review each and every ULTRA intercept that applied to that topic, whether it be an aircraft, unit, place, person or what have you. Larry |
#27
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
PHP Code:
I agree exactly with your assesment. ULTRA was not the only intelligence asset that was being protected: the sophistication of Allied SIGINT as a whole, including the contribution of ULTRA material, was immensely sensitive and the UK/US collaboration in the early post-war period was balanced on a knife-edge as the differing priorities were emerging. Mainly due to the pressure to hold together the Empire, Britain’s intelligence community was making the most of her position as a base for US involvement in the coming confrontation with the USSR, and SIGINT was still growing as an industry. There was quite a bit of ‘political football’ on the subject and Britain, wrongly, thought that her strength in SIGINT was going to keep her place at the top table. It was of course too late, due to the actions of the Soviet moles in British Intelligence, but it took until the Suez Crisis for this to be accepted. The card indexes were greatly detailed accounts of a defeated enemy, and evidence of the methods used to achieve that victory. The separate card system created and maintained by the Admiralty Submarine Tracking Rooms contained even more insights into the sources used, and apparently was cross-referenced to the GC&CS cards on many subjects. We would all do backflips now to get even a piece of that gold, but in the early ‘50s they must have been seen only as liability. Bruce
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http://www.filephotoservice.co.uk/ RESEARCH AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES & OTHER UK INSTITUTIONS |
#28
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
Bruce wrote in part:
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Larry |
#29
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
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I'm interested in a copy, see PM. Regards, Marcel |
#30
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
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bregds SES |
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