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Old 9th August 2016, 09:47
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EJG 1 1945: Which Staffel flew Fw 190, which Bf 109?

Hello,

I am trying to find out if in 1944/45 the different Staffeln of EJG 1 flew different fighter types (i.e. Fw 190 or Bf 109) or if they flew both types at the same time. My hypothesis is that each Staffel flew only one type.

From logbooks of EJG 1 pilots, it looks as if the following Staffeln of I. and II. Gruppe flew Fw 190s:

1.
2.
6.
8.

and the following Bf 109s:

3.
9.

and unknown aircraft type for the following:

4.
5.
7.

Often I only had one logbook per Staffel, so it may still be that the Staffeln did not use one the 190 or 109 exclusively. That is only an assumption I made.

Maybe loss lists could tell more. If there were losses of the same Staffel of both Fw 190 and Bf 109, my hypothesis would be wrong.

Does anybody have aircraft losses of EJG 1 in 1945?

Thanks,
Roger
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Old 9th August 2016, 18:38
Schlageter Schlageter is offline
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Re: EJG 1 1945: Which Staffel flew Fw 190, which Bf 109?

Hi Roger,

7./ EJG 1 flew Fw190D-9 from Berlin-Gatow.

Best

Michael
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  #3  
Old 9th August 2016, 21:06
VtwinVince VtwinVince is online now
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Re: EJG 1 1945: Which Staffel flew Fw 190, which Bf 109?

Hi Roger,

My uncle was with EJG1 in 1945 and I have his logbook, let me get it out and have a look.
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Old 10th August 2016, 01:00
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
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EJG 1 1945: Which Staffel flew Fw 190, which Bf 109?

Hi guys

I am aware of at least three notable pilots that were lost while serving with EJG 1 in 1945: Fähnrich Josef Quarda (52 victories) of 1./EJG 1 in Fw 190 A-8 "White 7" (W.Nr. 732 108) by German Flak east of Schafhaus on 5 March 1945, Leutnant Hans Adam (12 victories) of 3./EJG 1 in Bf 109 G-14 "Yellow 36" (W.Nr. 166 341) in aerial combat with USAAF P-51 fighters west of Haderslev on 12 March 1945 and Oberfeldwebel Wilhelm Mink (62 victories, RK) of I./EJG 1 in Bf 109 G-14 (W.Nr. 464 454) in aerial combat with USAAF P-51 fighters west of Haderslev on 12 March 1945. I hope this helps somewhat.

Horrido!

Leo
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Old 10th August 2016, 09:31
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Re: EJG 1 1945: Which Staffel flew Fw 190, which Bf 109?

Hi all,

Thank you very much for your input. If the correct unit was indeed EJG 1, it looks as if it was 1./EJG 1. Based on the above information, logbook entries, etc. I get the following:

I./EJG 1:
1./EJG 1: White Fw 190
2./EJG 1: Black Bf 109
3./EJG 1: Yellow Bf 109
4./EJG 1: ? ?, merged with 3./EJG 1 on 17.4.45, became 10./EJG 1

II./EJG 1:
Converted to Fw 190 D-9 at the beginning of March 1945 at Berlin Gatow

Are there any more known losses that would shed some more light into the Staffel colors and aircraft types? It may still be that they had both the 109 and 190 in one Staffel, but my hypothesis is that they had one type per Staffel.

Roger
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Old 10th August 2016, 12:24
Charles Bavarois Charles Bavarois is offline
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Re: EJG 1 1945: Which Staffel flew Fw 190, which Bf 109?

Hello Roger,
my database contains information on nearly 1.200 Bf109 and Fw190 allocated to EJG 1, mostly with Werknummern and most information from ULTRA and NVM. Only for around 300 a/c the Staffel was reported. The database does not include information from logbooks, when no Werknummer or special incident was reported. The info generally stops in late March 1945, for April I lack knowlegde. So the picture certainly is not complete, but I think, it could be a hint to the real situation:


1. Staffel white: mixed Bf 109 and Fw190, last three entries from March 45 are Fw190
2. Staffel black or red: Started with Fw190 only till early Feb., mixed A-2, A-5, A-8. Last three from 2/3.1945 are BF109G14. A single Fw190 D-9 is unclear
3. Staffel mostly yellow, also white and green: Bf109 all the time, G-6 and G-14
4. Staffel blue, single white: Only info on five a/c, Bf 109 G-6 and G-14, a single Fw190 A-8
5. Staffel white: Bf109 only, G-6 and G-14, a single G-5
6. Staffel red: 190 only, mostly A-8, single A-5, A-6 and A-7
7. Staffel yellow: Bf 109 G-6 and a single G-5, in November 1944a lonely Fw190 A-6
8. Staffel white: Fw 190 only, A-5, A-7, A-8
9. Staffel white: Bf 109 G-6 only, a single G-14
10. Staffel black: Bf109 only, G-6 and G-14, a single G-5
11. Staffel yellow: Fw190 till Jan., three entries after 1.2.1945 are Bf109
12. Staffel white: Bf109 all the time, G-6 and G-14
13. Staffel white: Bf109 all the time, G-6 and G-14, a single G-12
14. Staffel redbrown: Bf109 all the time, G-6 and G-14
15. Staffel yellow: Fw190 only, all A-8
16. Staffel blue: Fw190 only, all A-8
17. Staffel no info: Bf109 all the time, G-6 and G-14.

HTH

Carl
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Old 10th August 2016, 14:17
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Re: EJG 1 1945: Which Staffel flew Fw 190, which Bf 109?

Hello Carl,

Thank you very much. That really helps a lot! The background of my question is that I'd like to identify the unit of Fw 190 F-8, W.Nr. 587108, 'White 48' of which I published photos in my 'Captured Eagles Vol. I' book. If it was EJG 1, 1./EJG 1 would seem the most likely one (if they did not use Gruppe markings, 8./EJG 1 would also be an option).

I found several other Fw 190 with an identical style of tactical markings:

Fw 190, W.Nr. ?, ‘White 17’, found at Berlin Gatow, Germany
Fw 190, W.Nr. ?, ‘White 22’, found at Flensburg Weiche, Germany
Fw 190 F-8, W.Nr. 581663, ’White 37’, found at Vaerløse, Denmark
Fw 190 A-8, W.Nr. 170088, ‘White 40’, found at Flensburg Weiche, Germany
Fw 190 F-8, W.Nr. 587108, ’White 48’, found at Lippstadt, Germany

Since all were found in the north of Germany / south of Denmark, my initial hypothesis was EJG 1 or SG 151. Some Staffel of EJG 1 were at Flensburg and Berlin Gatow. 14./SG 151 was at Vaerlose and I./SG 151 at Grove, Denmark.

Looking at the EJG 1 losses you provided, what speaks against EJG 1 is that only Fw 190 A-subtypes are mentioned, no F-subtype, while at least two of the Fw 190 mentioned above were F-8. But the picture may have been different in April 1945.

On the other hand, SG 151 virtually only reported F-subtypes in fall 1944 and only a handful of A-subtypes.

Do you also have information on I./SG 151 losses? Are there also Fw 190 A mentioned?

Thanks again!

Roger
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Old 10th August 2016, 15:43
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Re: EJG 1 1945: Which Staffel flew Fw 190, which Bf 109?

Hello,
It seams we have also some planes from EJG1 at Bad Aibling:

Fw 190 A-3, W.Nr. 2168 "White 8"
Fw 190 A-8, W.Nr. 960233 "White 7"
Fw 190 A-8, W.Nr.? "White 8"

All these planes were visibles on the same picture.

Best regards,
Lumabe.
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Old 10th August 2016, 17:33
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Re: EJG 1 1945: Which Staffel flew Fw 190, which Bf 109?

I/EJG: 1 and 2 Staffel Fw 190. 3 and 4 Bf 109.
Vaerlöse is 14/SG 151!

Junker
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  #10  
Old 10th August 2016, 19:59
S Sheflin S Sheflin is online now
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Re: EJG 1 1945: Which Staffel flew Fw 190, which Bf 109?

Hello all,

Regarding the Fw 190s that were abandoned at Einsatzhafen Vaerlöse, and as their possibly being from I./EJG 1, I must agree with Junker that they were instead most likely from 14./SG151.

The vast majority of these Fw 190s were older A-5/U8s (ex G-2s); G-3s; and F-8s. Interestingly, most of them featured flame shields above their exhausts; gun trough shields; and distinctive small white (or yellow?) plane numerals.

Finally, Roger listed “White 37” found at Vaerlöse as being Fw 190 F-8 WNr. 581663. I believe that he may actually be referring to Fw 190 A-5/U8, WNr. 151563 (ex G-2 WNr. 181563), which was uniquely marked with a large 37+ yellow (including on its wheel covers). My contention is supported by its WNr. which can be seen on several prints in my possession.

I welcome corrections or additions to my statements.

Steve Sheflin
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