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  #1  
Old 3rd April 2018, 18:14
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losse of an Il-2 (Hungarian Border) 14/03/45

Who shot down the Il-2 (Ml.Leit.Sidelnykov) of 421° assault regiment(jurisni puk) near Dravaszabolcs.

I believe I know by Bf.109....but?

Michel
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  #2  
Old 3rd April 2018, 22:09
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: losse of an Il-2 (Hungarian Border) 14/03/45

The 421° assault regiment was the Yugoslav detachment of the 17 VA, 10 GvShAD, 165 GvShAP after December, 1944. (Soviet pilots remained listed under the 165 GvShAP.) Ml.L-t Konstantin Nikolaevich Sidelnikov (1922-) was a soviet pilot, so he belonged to the 165 GvShAP. On March 14, 1945 the soviet 17th Air Army lost more than 15 IL-2s in the Lake Velencei area in Hungary, but none of them was from the 165 GvShAP.

Around March 14, 1945 the 3 regiments (165, 166, 167 GvShAP) of the 10 GvShAD lost 4 IL-2s on March 12, 1945 (IL-2, S/N: 9912, 1871196, 1872289, 1879095) and 2 on March 17, 1945 (IL-2, S/N: 1871190, 1871588). No permanent loss recorded on March 14, 1945 in the 10 GvShAD.

On March 14, 1945 Ml.L-t Konstantin Nikolaevich Sidelnikov in the formation of four 165 GvShAP IL-2s attacked the Valpovo area in Yugoslavia when their flight was attacked by 4 Bf 109s. He managed to down one of them, but I have no record of his loss. If he had to make a force landing after the dogfight, then his plane was not lost, but repaired afterwards and remained in combat service. I hope this helps.

Gabor
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Old 3rd April 2018, 22:19
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: losse of an Il-2 (Hungarian Border) 14/03/45

Fate of the lost 10 GvShAD IL-2s around March 14, 1945:

March 12, 1945:

9912 - crashlanding
1871196 - combat crashlanding
1872289 - MIA
1879095 - MIA


March 17, 1945:

1871190 - MIA
1871588 - MIA (from ОдВО)

Gabor
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  #4  
Old 4th April 2018, 10:28
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Boris Ciglic Boris Ciglic is offline
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Re: losse of an Il-2 (Hungarian Border) 14/03/45

Hi Gabor,

There are two documents I'm aware of about the incident in question on 14 March:

- operational report No.42 of 10 GShAD at 18.00 hrs on 14.3.45. stating that Il-2 failed to return and was lost NE of Dravaszabolcs after a fight with two Bf 109s

- summary report No.115 of the Group of Aviation Divisions (made of 10 GShAD and 236 IAD) from 6.4.45. stating that on 14.3.45. one Bf 109 was damaged in air combat while a 'Soviet Il-2 (leit Sidelnikov)' has been shot down in return near Dravaszabolcs.

From what you wrote, it seems that the plane has been eventually salvaged. Question remains who flew the Bf 109s? Hungarians or Germans?

Boris
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Old 4th April 2018, 12:08
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: losse of an Il-2 (Hungarian Border) 14/03/45

Boris,
I am not aware of any Hungarian IL-2 victories in the area, so I assume they were German Bf 109s. Note, that the reported time (18:00 hrs) in soviet doc was Moscow local time, so the dogfight could take place around 16:00 hrs local time - just to match to the proper Axis reports. (See Sidelnikov's attached 165 GvShAP record for March 14, 1945 below.)

I think there are two options for the loss of his IL-2:

1: As I said, it was not a complete loss and the plane returned to service, or:
2: Since the listed losses (serials) are from division, and not regiment-level reports, it was delayed a few days while sending up the records between the offices, and were reported only by March 17, 1945, not March 14. So it could be 1871190, or 1871588. (Another example: 167 GvShAP IL-2 No.1874488 was lost on January 20, 1945 in the regiment docs, but was written off at 10 GvShAD division-level only by January 25, 1945!)

Since I have no regiment level reports for the 10 GvShAD regiments, I cannot tell which option is correct. Anyways, here is the full list of the reported IL-2 losses of the 10 GvShAD between March 14, 1945 and their transfer to the new Yugoslav Air Force by April 27, 1945:

March 17, 1945:

1871190 - MIA
1871588 - MIA (originally from ОдВО - Odessa Military District) - Note: 167 GvShAP pilot gv.ml.l-t Ivan Ivanovich Evgenevich failed to return from a mission in the Donji Miholjac area on March 16, 1945, so either in 1871190, or in 1871588.

March 21, 1945:

9873 - MIA - Note: gv.capt. Ivan Dmitrievich Pavlov (165 GvShAP) was killed on March 18, 1945 at Valpovo, while Vladimir Semyonovich Filippov (166 GvShAP) was killed at Brcko-E on March 19, 1945 - probably a few days delay in division AC loss report!

March 23, 1945:

1885801 - MIA (from ПриВО)
18772100 - MIA (transfer from 217 ШАП)

April 11, 1945:

8923 - wear and tear (scrapped)
1872798 - crashlanding
1875477 - accident
1875689 - wear and tear (scrapped)
1880901 - MIA (ОдВО не числится ВВС КА)
18881115 - crashlanding

April 20, 1945:

1870695 - accident
1870885 - flak (2 ВА списан)
1871290 - crashlanding
1877094 - crashlanding

April 24, 1945:

9885 - crashlanding
1873595 - MIA
1873648 - wear and tear (scrapped) - from 16 ВА, this was an 'UIL-2' trainer version!!!
18861115 - flak

April 27, 1945:
ALL REMAINING IL-2s of 10 GvShAD have been transferred to the New Yugoslav Air Force as:

165 GvShAP -> 421° assault regiment (jurisni puk)
166 GvShAP -> 422° assault regiment (jurisni puk)
167 GvShAP -> 423° assault regiment (jurisni puk)

I have their 71 serials too, but the list is too long for here. I hope this helps.
Gabor

Last edited by HGabor; 3rd May 2018 at 14:00.
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Old 4th April 2018, 13:00
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: losse of an Il-2 (Hungarian Border) 14/03/45

17 VA, 236 IAD (standard fighter escort for the 10 GvShAD IL-2s) had a fighter loss on March 14, 1945 at Stari Slankamen, but it was NOT related to Sidelnikov's mission. (Yak-1b of 267 IAP flew into a ground object and crashed, pilot Yankovich was killed. Later, on March 19, 1945 267 IAP Yak-1b (S/N: 32150, "Oсвобожденный Донбасс"), piloted by st.l-t Dmitrii Dmitrievich Tormakhov failed to return from the Donji Miholjac area (-NE, 4 km), while Yak-1b (S/N: 17170), piloted by Dmitrei Dmitrevskii Todar crashlanded.)
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  #7  
Old 14th April 2018, 22:50
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Csaba B. Stenge Csaba B. Stenge is offline
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Re: losse of an Il-2 (Hungarian Border) 14/03/45

There was a pair of Hungarian Bf 109's in combat with a La-5 escorted Il-2 formation at this time, but close to 100 km north from Drávaszabolcs. They recorded no kill, but reported very bad visibility. German fighters were also active around this time.
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Old 15th April 2018, 01:23
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: losse of an Il-2 (Hungarian Border) 14/03/45

March 14, 1945 was one of the most dramatic, bloodiest days of the last German panzer offensive of WWII in Hungary with full day air activity over the front lines between Lake Balaton and Simontornya. Both sides claimed several dozens of victories. Soviet 17th Air Army, covering the 3rd Ukrainian Front eg. lost ~36 planes, including 8 A-20 Boston bombers. Here I list events of La-5 actions:

17 VA, 295 IAD, 116 IAP lost one of their most famous fighter aces, Capt. Anatoliy Alexandrovich Pantelkin (Hero of Soviet Union, see attached pics. In 1943 group pic. he stands 2nd from left in front of La-5F '37'). Capt. Pantelkin was KIA in his La-5FN (white '69', S/N: 39212869, engine S/N: 8213627) while strafing the Sárkeresztúr area. He led his flight of 4 La-5s, when a "NEW MODEL" Fw 190 shot him down, which quickly returned to his territory with unusually high speed. ("В районе Шаркерестур на высоте 600-800 м 1 ФВ-190 нового типа (удлинненый нос, мотор жидкостного охлаждения) снизу свечей атаковал ведущего четверки и ушел с большой скоростью на свою территорию. Ближайший Ла-5фн сбитый ИА - 17.3. отчет") - This could be a new Bf 109G with methanol injection as well. Any idea about this claim?????

17 VA, 295 IAD, 164 IAP lost 3 La-5FNs in the Székesfehérvár area:

39210906 - мл.л-т Булдыгин Владимир Федорович (crashlanded)
39211637 - л-т Иожицкий Анатолий Викторович (POW)
39210653 - мл.л-т Щукин Иван Федотович (crashlanded)

5 VA, 279 IAD, 92 IAP lost La-5FN (S/N: 39213380) on Ferihegy airfield (Vecsés-N) at landing. Pilot, мл.л-т Андреев Василий Иванович was unhurt.

Lt. Pavel Mikhailovich Dolgarev (17 VA, 295 IAD, 116 IAP) claimed a Bf 109 at Börgönd-N.
Capt. Anatolii Ivanovich Volodin (17 VA, 295 IAD, 164 IAP) claimed a Fw 190 at Zichyújfalu-N.
Capt. Aleksei Dmitrievich Ovchinnikov (17 VA, 194 IAD, 848 IAP) claimed 2 Fw 190s at Simontornya-N.

(The 3rd Ukrainian Front air and ground units tried everything to stop the German tank columns and push them back to Lake Balaton in order to take the last major oil fields of the Reich in SW-Hungary. No price was too high. Fierce tank battles took place eg. in the Seregélyes-Székesfehérvár area. The 18 Tank Corp., 170th Tank Brigade, 2nd bttl. lost 4 burned (1944, December-built) T-34/85s in a quick ambush of the 2./Pz.Rgt 6 Panther Ausf. G tanks at Seregélyes:

T-34/85, turret No. red '536', chassis No.: 4121531, engine No.: 105712, - л-т Талызин Александр Васильевич platoon-commander (KIA)
T-34/85, turret No. red '544', chassis No.: 4121616, engine No.: 105589
T-34/85, turret No. red '545', chassis No.: 4121591, engine No.: 105126
T-34/85, turret No. red '575', chassis No.: 0412228, engine No.: 4090656

18 Tank Corp., 1438 SAP lost 5 burned SU-76M self-propelled guns at Seregélyes:

SU-76M, turret No.: white '1838', chassis No.: 410150, engine Nos. (L-R): 48626, 48638
SU-76M, turret No.: white '1610', chassis No.: 411012, engine Nos. (L-R): 49115, 48299
SU-76M, turret No.: white '410126', chassis No.: 411693, engine Nos. (L-R): 49585, 50112
SU-76M, turret No.: white '410288', chassis No.: 411697, engine Nos. (L-R): 48724, 48564
SU-76M, turret No.: white '410224', chassis No.: 411700, engine Nos. (L-R): 49800, 50244

209 САБр., 1953 SAP lost 3 burned (1944, November-built) SU-100 self-propelled guns at Cece:

SU-100, turret No. red '462', chassis No.: 411161
SU-100, turret No. red '463', chassis No.: 411162
SU-100, turret No. red '465', chassis No.: 41193

Etc, etc, etc. But this leads too far...)
Gabor

Last edited by HGabor; 16th May 2018 at 14:32.
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  #9  
Old 26th July 2018, 18:23
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: losse of an Il-2 (Hungarian Border) 14/03/45

Sorry, the four 170 TBr T-34/85s were lost to IL-2 friendly fire:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showpo...&postcount=784
Gabor
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