Bf 109 - What am I looking at?

[Revi16]

This photo link was originally posted by RudiS here, Post 4157 http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...45190&page=416
Is shows a Bf 109 in Roth, Germany at the end of the war with an American GI.


What am I looking at here, wing cannon/gun, square engine intake, an E model that made it to the end of the war?

I can't recall ever seeing a photo of a surviving E model from the the end of the war.

[Broncazonk]

Inboard of the Mg FF (20mm) cannon is a second circular port. Is this the empty shell casing (brass) ejection port? (I can't find an underwing shell ejection port on the E-3,4,5 models.)

Bronc

[pvanroy]

Yes, it's a Bf 109 E with a Fieseler-type intake, mostly seen on the 109 T, but also known from some late production E-7 aircraft. The exhausts visible in the photograph further confirm it to be a DB 601 engined E model. Likely the same aircraft is also visible in the background of the 109 G image shown in the same post. This aircraft in the background clearly is an E, as it shows the square wing tips and braced tailplane.

The round hole inboard of the MG FF/M cannon likely just is the opening for the MG 17 gun that armed the E-1, E-5 and E-8 models. When these aircraft were rebuilt to E-4/-7 standard and received MG FF cannons, the hole for the MG 17 gun was simply blanked off with a round metal plate - this is visible in quite a few photographs of cannon-armed E airframes.

As far as I'm aware, the MG FF and MG FF/M didn't require shell ejection ports - these weapons used drums, and the empty casings simply remained in the drum.

[Slayer]

This Bf109E with Fieseler type air-intake has a universal wing, it can be installed MG-17 or MG-FF. The second circular port was used to mount the MG-17 machine gun, and Usually closed with a round plug. MG-FF shell casings never flew out, they remained in special wing compartments.

[Graham Boak]

The Kookaburra volume 3 on L/w camouflage had a end-of-war photo of an E, 3552, in the grey camouflage and white outline crosses. The suggestion was an aircraft of JG104 at Firth.

[ChristianK]

Revi, if you are interested in surviving "Emils", here are two more: NG+PZ, found in Gotha and Werknr. 6212, found in Tutow. Both were most likely attached to fighter schools, as well as the one from Roth.


Cheers,
Christian

[rof120]

Originally Posted by Graham Boak

(...) The suggestion was an aircraft of JG104 at Firth.

Firth or Fürth?

As you know the German ü is pronounced like the French u, for example in the words tu, voiture, tutu. (And this sound doesn't exist in English.)

[Graham Boak]

You are quite right, but it was a slip between reading it (downstairs) and typing it later (upstairs). It says "It is thought that the machine was used by a fighter-training unit, possibly JG 104 at Fürth near Nuremberg." It has no visible individual identification other then the number, but the cowling is separate and hidden, and there is a small square cut out of the rudder.

[ouidjat]

Hi Gents,
Many Bf 109 Es of JG104 have been pictured at Fürth-Herzogenaurach and at Roth during the year 1944, and (at least) one Bf 109 D-1.
3552 has been pictured at Fürth in 1945, as pointed above.

The wreck above has been (said to be) pictured at Roth in 1945, doesn't mean it was still flying in 1945 but it is, indeed, possible.
I have no one Emil loss for the year 1945, though.
Last Emil loss being registered during June 1944.
I do not pretend my list is complete.
Cheers,
Franck.