I./JG 5 victory claims in Bulgaria in January 1944?

[Dénes Bernád]

I./JG 5 stationed in Bulgaria in January-February 1944.
Does anyone know the victory claims they submitted?

Tony Woods' list (archived) does not mention any, 'Ciel de gloire' ditto (http://www.cieldegloire.com/jg_005a.php), but another internet source mentions 3 B-17s downed on 10 January 1944. Is this confirmed?

Any other victory claims while they were in Bulgaria?

Thanks, in advance.

[sidney]

According to Eric Mombeek's book Eismeerjäger - zur Geschichte des Jagdgeschwaders 5, Band 4, page 277 (JG 5 victory list/claims):

10 January 1944 - I./JG 5 was defending Sofia from the attack of the 15. USAAF. Claims:

Fw. Franz Leitner, 2./JG 5 - B-17
Oblt. Gerd Senoner, 1./JG 5 - B-17
Lt. Franz von Thienen, I./JG 5 - B-17 (n.a.)
Ofw. Hermann Holtkötter, 1./JG 5 - B-17 (n.a.)

Hptm. Gerhard Wengel, Gruppenkommandeur, KIA.

Regards,
Sinisa

[Dénes Bernád]

Thank you, Sinisa, for the details. So these make four B-17 claims.
What does (n.a.) mean? Not confirmed?

[sidney]

You are welcome, Dénes. Having compared the list with the actual description of the event (i.e., that is in Band 3, page 208), I found that only two of the above victories were confirmed.

Not sure what the n.a. exactly stands for though - I thought that the German abbreviation for not confirmed would be n.b (i.e., nicht bestätigt) - but should be somewhere along those lines - not confirmed.

[Nick Hector]

n.a. = nicht anerkannt. Another way of saying nicht bestaetigt.

[sidney]

Nick, thank you for the clarification in this respect.

[Dénes Bernád]

I would like to refresh this topic, as it's still unclear to me the details of the victory claims filed by I./JG 5 pilots in Bulgaria. If anyone can come up with new information (or confirm the details listed above), please do so.

Thanks,

[Laurent Rizzotti]

No idea about the victories of I./JG 5 but a comment about the n.a and n.b. difference.

My understanding is that "n.a" is meaning unconfirmed while "n.b." was "without witness" (and so "automatically" unconfirmed). So a "n.a" claim was probably including a witness report but was unconfirmed for another reason.

[Rottler]

On January 10, 1944 the Fifteenth Air Force bombed Sofia, Bulgaria.
Around 60 Luftwaffe fighters attacked the Sofia force and a fierce air battle ensued, 2 B-17's were lost.

MACR 1819
B-17 F-40-BO 42-5170 Nickname „Ready Teddy“.
99th Bomb Group, 347th Bomb Squadron, 1226 hrs forced down.
2nd Lt Dale E. Shupe crew, 1 dead, 9 POW.

An eye-witness description:
…. Two minutes off the target No. 2 prop of B-17 F #5170 was feathered and a few seconds later No. 3 prop was also feathered. The plane started dropping back and losing altitude fast. ….At that time I noticed an enemy pursuit plane flying about 600 yards from the crippled B-17. The plane continued to fly in the opposite direction from that oft he formation and then I saw four parachutes open. Shortly afterward the plane made another 180 deg turn and dropped down, flying through a ravine. A few seconds later it crashed into the side of a small hill and exploded.

MACR 1824
B-17 F-25-VE 42-5811
2nd Bomb Group, 20th Bomb Squadron, 1223 hrs forced down.
2nd Lt Thomas P. Finch crew, 7 dead, 3 POW.

An eye-witness descripton:
Over the target I was looking out the left waist window, because fighters had been called out. I saw an explosion and fire in the tail gunners position of aircraft No. 811.
It began to lose altitude and I noticed that it had it’s wheels down. The plane then slid under our aircraft. When I looked again, I saw three or four enemy fighters attacking No. 811 from all angles.
I did not see any parachutes come out and soon lost sight of the plane.

Regards
Leo

[Dénes Bernád]

Thanks, Leo, for the details. There was a third 'Flying Fortress' heavily damaged in that raid, namely B-17F, 41-24366, 2nd BG, 429th BS.