Trading of Erkennungsmarke....

[John Manrho]

Gentlemen,

today I received Edition 3/2006 of Stimme & Weg, the magazine of the Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge. In this magazine again a call has been made to stop selling and/or buying Erkennungsmarke on the internet/Ebay. Allthough not in every case but in many cases these EM originate from grave robberies in the eastern part of Europe. By performing these grave robberies and selling the EM and other "artefacts" these soldiers will remain Unknown forever. I feel selling EM is a crime, maybe not legally, but at least morally. Selling or buying EM on Ebay, even when it does not come from digs, should be stopped as this encourages grave robberies, particularly in the eastern states. So think about when tempted.....

regards,

John Manrho.

[Jochen Prien]

Dear John Manrho,
Gentlemen,

it is absolutely disgusting to see that there is a market for Erkennungsmarken of fallen German soldiers ( or of any other nation's soldiers ). Both, sellers and buyers in this market, must be sick characters who have lost any feeling for decency and the honour of the dead soldiers, not to speak of the feelings of their families who are thus deprived of the certainty of the fate of their fathers, husbands or brothers. What pervert sensation does it give to them to hold this little piece of metal in their hands, knowing that it was taken from a corpse ?

The only possible decent and reasonable use than can be made of the Erkennungsmarken I can think of is their presentation in a Museum or Archive after it had been properly dealt with by the authorities. But museums and archives don't have to look for these things at ebay or any similar institution.

The subject reminds us of the fact, that dealing with this part of German history often involves rather dubious characters; it also means that we, who are trying to find out the historical facts and who are trying to draw an objective picture of the Luftwaffe's service including the dark sides are called upon to draw a clear division line to those types who - for whatever reason - look for something else.

Regards

Jochen Prien

[Hohentwiel]

Hello John, hello Jochen,

thanks a lot for these statements! I guess that many of us support
the Volksbund in different ways. Some of us spend a part of
our hard earned money or work in our holidays at the graveyards of
fallen soldiers. But this is a request to all of you: don't buy or sell
Erkennungsmarken/identification tag with unknown origin. You may
erase the identity of our fallen fathers and grandfathers. Every solved
fate is only a little part of the jigsaw. But it's the result of the great
important work of the Volksbund and a help for all people who have
lost a member of their family.

Sven.

[Franek Grabowski]

Well, I am afraid many collectors have rather reduced sensitivity. Anyway, perhaps any such items (also including personal documents) should have some sort of ID tags, clearing property/origin matters?
PS Not very much on the subject, I have noticed that VDK now lists all sorts of war deads, including KL inmates! Why the mess?

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, guys.

Just have to state that I totally agree with the above posters. The Erkennungsmarke would be the only way in most cases to positively identify victims of war.

I have also wondered how it is possible to trade on eBay Stammkarten from the Luftwaffe. (These are cards that were used to register personnel losses, and often have information in them that are protected as far as I can see by German law if they were kept in an official institution, "Datenschutz", right??). Please see this link for an example of what I am talking about:

http://cgi.ebay.de/LUFTWAFFE-STAMMKA...QQcmdZViewItem

I would for certain try to find the correct official address for this if I found them, as they seem to belong in an official archive.

Regards,
Andreas

[edwest]

I have much sympathy about this subject. My father was a soldier.

Would it help to post these items? Not for any profit but so that the images might at least be recorded? The Japanese government has a program where certain relics are returned there by paying the current owner. As disturbing as this sounds, relics are held by scoundrels and the unknowing. I hesitate to call these things souvenirs but sometimes, that is how they are regarded. Perhaps someone should contact the appropriate German museum of government agency to see if such items can be banned from sale. But again, the dilemma becomes that they may be lost forever in a box or drawer, only to be forgotten.

I am interested to hear what others think should be done.




Regards,
Ed West



P.S.

It is a terrible thing for those of decent character to imagine even for a second what some people are capable of, unfortunately, grave robbing has been going on for centuries.

[Hohentwiel]

Hi Ed,

I've read the article too and the author tells us that the
"Deutsche Dienststelle" in Berlin - in the 1940s known as
"Wehrmachtsauskunftstelle" - is watching all offers of dog tags
at ebay. I some cases ebay deleted some auctions. But mostly
the auctions end in the normal way. Ebay is not very cooperative.

It is an interesting question, the author is asking:
What is the price of a human fate? Some tags were sold for
20 USD or less...

I don't know if the officials in Germany know something about the
"Stammkarten" Andreas told us about but it may be very interesting
to ask them. Maybe we should post them to Berlin?

Sven.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Ed.

I think it would be a good thing to list these items also, along with photographs and albums. At least we will then get a possibility to see whats out there...

Regards,
Andreas

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Hello,

This just turned up by eBay,

http://cgi.ebay.de/20-Erkennungsmark...mZ150013223956

I guess this explains a lot how Erkennungsmarken are forged.

regards,
Tomislav

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Tomislav.

Yes of course, as long as you get the discs to punch information into. The punching tools however has been available in ordinary tool shops continously since the war, the empty discs are what makes this interesting for some I guess.

Punch them, dig them down under a tree in the garden and sell them next year...

Regards,
Andreas