Luftwaffe vs Romanian air force

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Hi guys

on 23/08/44: one Bf.109 shot down by Uffz.Jochinke according Johann Twietmeyer (04/1992)

on 24/08/44ne Bf.109 shot down by Uffz.Jochinke according Karl-Heinz Bottner (04/1992)

two Bf.109 shot down by Lt Riedel
one Bf.109 shot down by Lt Ludwig
one Bf.109 shot down by Fw.Skreba
according Wilhelm Mockel (02/1990)

on 25/08/44ne IAR 38 shot down by 2/SG2

on 26/08/44: one Bf.109 shot down by Stab/II JG51
one IAR 39 (38?) shot down by 10/JG77

on 28/08/44/one Bf.109 shot down (adj.av.Constantin Stolica) by Bf.109

on 29/08/44:two Bf.109 shot down by 11/JG77

on 31/08/44ne IAR 81 n°375 shot down by ?

Any help appreciated
Thanks

Michel

[Nokose]

Do a search on past posts of Helmut Lipfert.

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That's what I did before,and I know no more,especially concerning the possible Romanian losses? (real or not......)

Michel

[Johannes]

Hi Michel

Are you wanting a list of Luftwaffe claims over Romanian aircraft? I known Steinhoff and Duttmann claimed, but I can always make you a list?

Kind Regards

Johannes

[focusfocus]

Hi Johannes

1)
I seek above all to identify the Romanian losses that may correspond with the german claims.
2)
With regards to the claims of 23 and 24/08/44,despite the testimorries of the former JG 77 members (Twietmeyer,Bottner,Mockel:in 1990-1992),I have not found any confirmations of these claims in the list has my dispositions,so....I have a doubt.

Steinhoff and Duttmann claimed against Romanian in 08/44 ?? in 09/44 for Duttmann,yes (14/09,17/09,25/09) but in 08/44?

Best Regards
Michel

[Johannes]

Hi Michel

Yes, with Duttmann and Steinhoff September 1944, but I can find no claim for 14th for Duttmann just two Romanian each on 17th(Zar.80 & He111) and 25th(Zar.80's). Steinhoff also 25th(Bf109, unconfirmed).
But I do remember(by memory) I think it was a JG 52 pilots with more than Duttmann, but can't recall his name, or month, but not such a huge grand total.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Johannes]

Hi Michel

Actually the mikrofilms do not agree with you. The Jochinke claim for 23rd August with 11./JG 77 is recorded as a Jak-9 at 0817 hrs low altitude.
No JG 77 claims at all for the 24th.

On the 25th Lt Kurt Plenzat a Jar-38 at 1750 hrs 150 metres altitude with 2./SG 2.

On the 26th Oblt Fritz Kohrt a Jar-39 at 0925 hrs West of Buzan at 50 metres altitude with 10./JG 77. Lt Hans Taubenberger a Bf109 at 1740 hrs 3500 metres altitude with Stab.II./JG 51.

29th August 1944 two Bf109's by Fw Helmut Rosenberg(1745 hrs, 200 metres altitude) and Uffz Berthold Jochinke(1746 hrs, 50 metres altitude), both with 11./JG 77.

Nothing for the 31st.

September


5th Oblt Fritz Kohrt a Jar-39 at 1415 hrs 20 metres altitude with 10./JG 77.

7th Stfw Ily a Jar-81 at 1750 hrs with 4./SG 2

8th Fw Braun a Jar-39 at 1120 hrs with 1./NaG 14.

11th Uffz Heinrich Tammen two Go145's at 1732 and 1739 hrs close to the ground with 6./JG 65.

14th Hptm Karl Kennel a Hs129 at 1426 hrs 300 metres altitude with Stabst./SG 2.

16th Uffz Heinrich Tammen a Zar-80 at 1710 hrs 4500 metres altitude with 6./JG 52.

17th Duttmann Zar-80 at 1725 hrs 4500 metres altitude, He111 at 1735 hrs 3500 metres altitude with 6./JG 52.
Oblt Heinz Oprotkowitz a Jar-38 at 1730 hrs 100 metres altitude with 2./SG 2.

18th Uffz Werner Rode a Ju88 at 1315 hrs 3000 metres altitude with 5./JG 52.

19th Heinrich Tammen two Bf109's at 1515 hrs 1500 hrs, and 1519 hrs 2000 metres with 6./JG 52.

22nd Heinrich Tammen a Hs129 at 1630 hrs 200 metres altitude with 6./JG 52.

23rd Uffz Heinrich Tammen a Bf109 at 1240 hrs 1500 metres altitude with 6./JG 52.
Lt Martin Ludwig a Jar-80 at 1445 hrs 1600 metres altitude with 6./JG 52.
Uffz Wilhelm Maassen a Jar-80 at 1335 hrs 2000 metres with 5./JG 52.

24th Hptm Heinrich Sturm a Ju87 at 0922 hrs low altitude with Stab.II./JG 52.

25th Gefr "Naumann" a Bf109 at 18?5 hrs 3500 metres altitude with 3./SG 121.
Uffr Heinrich Tammen three Zar-80's at 1324 hrs 3000 metres altitude, 1327 hrs 3500 metres altitude and 1015 hrs 2500 metres altitude with 6./JG 52.
Peter Duttmann two Zar-80's at 0937 hrs 1500 metres altitude and 0940 hrs 1500 metres altitude with 6./JG 52.
Uffz Wilhelm Maassen three Zar-80's at 1015 hrs 1300 metres altitude, 1020 hrs 1000 metres altitude, and 1346 hrs 300 metres altitude with 6./JG 52.
Hptm Heinrich Sturm a Hs129 at 1337 hrs 300 metres altitude with Stab.II./JG 52.

Nothing for October or November.

December 1944:-(Romanian ?)

11th Lt Elias Kuhlein a Bf109 at 1143 hrs 3000 metres altitude with 5./JG 51.
Fhr Heinisch a Bf109 at 1144 hrs 3000 metres altitude with 5./JG 51.
Uffz Klein a Bf109 at 1148 hrs 1800 metres altitude with 5./JG 51.

All judged to be Romanian flown by aircraft type, but I don't know whether they were supplied with Sowiet aircraft at ant point. Pilot who's name I couldn't thin of is obviously Heinrich Tammen of 6./JG 52.

Regards

Johannes

P.S

There was also a "Aula" claimed by Major Gamringer of NsG 4 at 1150 hrs low altitude on 2nd September, but I have never heard of this type before. Somebody a bit more knowledgeable can help with this one.

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Hi Johannes

11/09
Tammen two Go 145 close to the ground:destroyed on the ground? or "luftsieg"?

14/09
Exact,it's a mistake on my part,it would be by the SG 2,by deduction if Kennel claimed an Hs 129 that day and nothing fo Duttmann,also according to my Romanian sources:
Ju.87 (grupul 6/3) by Fw.190 (may be SG 2)
Hs 129 n°101 St Lt av. Vasile Antonescu (SG 2?)
Hs 129 n° 319 Lt.av. Ion Stefanescu (SG 2?)
Hs 129 n° 106 St Lt av. Vasile Nasturash (SG 2?)

so one of these by Kennel

According to my Romanian sources,I also:may be claimed by SG 2 or SG 10?

17/09/44
IAR 81 Adj.av.Victor Popescu

22/09/44
IAR 81 n°319 St.Lt av.Dan Stefanescu (by 190?)

23/09/44
five IAR 81 and one Bf.109:
Bf.109 n°4 Adj.av.Ion Ionita (Tammen)
IAR 81 n°263 Slt.av.Petre Mihailescu
IAR 81 n°379 Adj.av.Alexandru Borru
IAR 81 n°312 Vasile Ionita
IAR 81 n°? Aurel Tifrea
IAR 81 n°? by 190

so two by Maasen and Ludwig

15/09/44
He.111 n°57 by Bf.109

16/09/44
Ju.88 n°108
three IAR 39

01/09/44
IAR 81 n°374

04/09/44
IAR 81 n°312 Adj.av.Vasile Ionita
IAR 81 n°379 Adj.av.Dumitru Boeru

16/09/44
IAR 81 n° 413 Adj.av.Iosif Ciuhulescu
IAR 81 n°265 Adj.Gheorge Zamfir

so one of the two by Tammen

29/09/44
IAR 81 n°? Lt.Titus Ionescu

03/11/44
two Ju.87 shot down and three prob. by II/SG 10
(one Ju.87 Bulgurian lost:S/Lt.Stoyo Kefedziyev

If the Romanian sources are reliable,itwould seem that many,many claims of the SG remain to be discovered!!

Michel

[Johannes]

Hi Michel

Yes, the Go145's were airborne, but close to the ground.

Regarding Schlacht units there being more to be discovered. Absolutely true during 1944, but specifically late April and May, this is using Hermann Buchner's abschußlist against the mikrofilms regarding SG 2, but later seems okay. I suspect SG 1 is the same, but SG 10 seems to be complete on the mikrofilms. I also have Helmut Mischke's abschußlist recording his first twenty claims in great details, which suggests that not all 1943 claims for SG 2 are recorded on the mikrofilms.
Mikrofilms supply fifteen claims for SG 10 in each month of November and December 1944, but none for 3rd November, and all Russian aircraft.

Regards

Johannes

[focusfocus]

Thanks Johannes

For now,the mystery remains whole about the many Romanian losses and their claimants.

Best regards
Michel